I Made A Fatal Error...back For Some Stocking Advice!

[Lazerus]

Hi all....

I have had Cardinal tetras for 3 months, and my two otos were recent additions to the tank...they are in there about 3 weeks now and seem healthy and happy.

I had one rogue tetra who is the King of the tank and bullying the other fish, and on advice it was suggested that I increase the shoal to reduce this type of behavior.

So, I'd been waiting weeks for Cardinal tetras to come in, and they finally did on Thursday, so yesterday, I got four Cardinal tetras yesterday to complete my shoal of 10.

Anyway, Two are ok this morning, one started dying in the bag before he even went into my tank, I thought he might recover, but he has since passed away.

But I extremely worried as the final one who looked perfect yesterday has completely no tail this morning? It’s right down to the stump. I’m thinking it was the rogue fish fighting him but I didn’t notice any aggressive behavior towards him all day yesterday.

What on earth has happened to him? Is it a disease, and if so, could it erode his tail that fast?

I have no quarantine tank, but I desperately need to do something....I need to get him out of there, along with the other two suspect fish before they possibly contaminate my tank.

I have a small 5gal tank, but no heater or filter.

Any quick fix suggestions?

Also, other than the tail thing, this fish looks ok, is there any hope for him if I treat him?

(Ammonia 0ppm, Nitrite 0pmm, Nitrate 0pmm….did a water change on Friday morn)

 

[Lazerus]

Ok....this is what I've done....

I've put some new gravel (thoroughly washed) into my 5gal tank, and an unused log ornament from an old tank. (Also thoroughly washed)

I've filled the tank with de-chlorinated water, and in the absence of a heater, I'm going to use a small round Tupperware tub and fill it with hot water, and let it float around the tank so that it will emit a steady heat to raise the water temperature.

I've taken the thermometer from my current tank, and put it this 5gal tank so I can monitor the heat. I can take the tub out then and top it up with hot water if the temperature dips.

I thinking about treating the tank with a medicine…but in the absence of a filter this means daily water changes, so I’m not sure if the medicine will get diluted down and so it may be pointless...what do you think?

I really don't have the funds, but I may just have to fork out for a heater and small filter today… They will cost about 50 euro which I really don't have right now.....but I suppose I will need this equipment in the future if I'm going to continue.

Hopefully there will be a pet shop open on a Sunday!

Okay, does all this sound okay?

 

[BigC]

Cardinals are notorious for going belly up in the fish bag home from the LFS. Ive had it happen to me on various occasions. Water chemistry changes inside the bag the longer the journey takes. Then if you pop the bag thats not good either. Best to open the bag slowly and carefully tip the contents into a good sized plastic recptical.
Then get a piece of airline with a small algarde plastic "G" clamp attached and set a syphon from your tank going and adjust the clamp to just a drip. Leave this for a good hour or so. you can take water out of the receptical an place it back into the main tank if the acclimatising tank gets too full.

I think the fish get stressed (especially cardinal tetra) when being caught, bagged and placed in a tank with totally different water chemistry than the LFS.
So slow acclimatisation will increase their chances of survival form the LFS to your Aquarium.
Regards
BigC

 

[Lazerus]

Thanks BigC...that’s great advice on acclimatising fish...especially sensitive fish like Cardinals.

The fish shop I bought these from is about a 15min drive from my home....I put the bag into the tank without opening it and left it there for about 45mins, then I opened the bag and poured some water from my tank into the bag doubling the volume, I left it there for another 45mins then, I netted them out of the bag and into the tank.

But I think if I’m buying Cardinals again….I will take your advice.

So, my little make shift Tupperware heater is working brilliantly...I have the three dodgy fish in there now.

I can't believe how bad the one with the tail missing looks...its like half his body has been stipped away....what could this be?



Half the scales on his body, I meant to say!!!

 

[Lazerus]

Well...they are just about dead now.

In few hours that I posted last, the three fish in the isolation tank have had their fins and scales half the way up their bodies stripped from whatever this bacteria is.....I never seen anything like it. They are floating on their backs, just panting now.

For some reason I was under the illusion that fin rot would happen over the course of week and could be cured given the right medicine.

But whatever did this was vert rapid and fatal. Two of these fish were visably perfect this morning.

Or this is something else and not fin rot?

 

[Miss Wiggle]

yeah that's not fin rot, thats gradual and would take a week or two to come on and kill, it's generally easily fixed with clean water and a bit of pimafix/melafix.

don't know what to suggest really, i would be considering euthanasia

if you've got some you could try an anti bac med but i'd say the chances of recovery are slim.

 

[Lazerus]

Thanks Miss Wiggle,

I wonder what it could be then

This morning when I set up the isolation tank I put in interpet No.9 (Anti-Internal Bacteria) but I guess it was too late.

After I posted, I left the tank with newspaper around it to insulate it and topped up the tupperware tub with hot water and I headed out to a LFS that was open today to buy a heater in hopes that I could save these guys over the next few days...

I got a lovely little thermostatically controlled 25w heater and tiny internal filter suitable for my 5gal tank....64quid for the pleasure though!!!! Yikes!

Anyway....when I got home the temperature was still at 25º so my system worked, but there had been a rapid decline in the health of the fish. I just can't believe it. Its like a flesh eating bacteria.....all the fishes tails are completely gone in a few hours.

Sad day....Very worried about my bigger tank now though.....

I don't think I'll get anymore Cardinals after this, its a pity because they are lovely fish.

 

[Lazerus]

Well, it’s all gone pear shaped....

I have only five cardinals left now....and my two otos.

I lost one of my original Cardinals over night for no apparent reason.

I had been watching them very closely to see if they were showing symptoms that the new fish had, but they were all fine going to bed last night.

This morning, when I got up, I could only see five cardinals in the tank....looked all around and to my shock there he was dead behind the heater.

I took him out and he was in an awful state...his eyes had popped right out and were like bug eyes, also his jaw seemed to be broken?

This is not the same symptoms as the other guys who have died from a very strange fin/scale rotting illness. It’s a mystery as to what happened to him so suddenly.

I'm at a total loss now and I'm in total despair....I do feel as if I'm going to loose my entire stock.

Can't believe my bad luck.

 

[Miss Wiggle]

oh man what a shame, are you now treating the main tank with anti bac?

 

[Lazerus]

No...I haven't touched my main tank...

Can I treat a tank with the oto's in it too....I thought I couldn't put medication in a tank with otos as they are sensitive to medication?

What should I treat it with.....Is interpet no.9 enough or should I use something else?

 

[AngelOfDeath]

you cant keep a shoal of tetra in an unfiltered tank, they need the oxygenated water that the filter provides

 

[rabbut]

Bacterial infections are very persistant. If you ever get one, you'd be wise to treat all the fish in the affected tank even if they show no symptoms. Bacterial infections move fast and kill quickly also. I'd personally use Waterlife's Myxazin for fin-rot, though I suspect you also have an internal bacterial infection also, which needs Interpet number 9. At this point I'd personally mix the two meds (They have different active ingreadiants, that do not react with each other, so it is reasonalbly safe, as med mixing goes) but this isn't advisable if you haven't done it before. If you have done it before, you'll know how, but if you haven't I won't tell you how, as the precedure is too risky to do without some experience behind med mixing. If you don't know what you are doing, it will go wrong, simple as

For now, if you aren't in the select few whom can mix meds, I'd use the interpet med, as the internal bacteria is whats in the main tank. The three hospitalised fish sound beyond help to me, so, like Miss Wiggle, I'd euthanise. The little tank tank will be good as a QT set-up though, and I'd recomend that you QT any new fish from this point forth since you have the facilities. A member on here has a sig that sums up QT tanks very well. "Not quarenteening is like playing russian rulette. Nobody wins the game, it's just some get to play longer than others"

Best of luck with this
Rabbut

 

[minxfishy]

you cant keep a shoal of tetra in an unfiltered tank, they need the oxygenated water that the filter provides

Laz has a proper filtered tank, which was fishless cycled. Its just unfortunate that this has happened.

Sorry to hear about the losses Laz.

 

[Lazerus]

Hi all....

Thanks for the replies guys....

Ok, I'm not going to attempt medicine mixing just now....although I'd certainly be interested it the learning method as an aside!

I edited my previous post probably while you were posting Rabbut...I was just wondering about Otos and their sensitivity to medication...I seem to remember reading something about them being sensitive to medication and to half the dosage...or was that cories???

I have interpet no.9 and interpet no.8 in my cupboard, so perhaps I'll try the interpet no.9 first and hope that the other doesn't strike...I just need to make sure that it doesn’t kill of my otos! God, what a mess!

Big lessons being learnt here.....you're so right about the russian roulette thing....I'm so annoyed with myself.

I hoping I'm out of the woods with regards to that fin/scale bacteria thing, as I imagine my fish would be dead by now going by the speed it took those other new fish. Less than 12hrs it seemed to take.

Yes, I'll keep my quarantine tank on standby...I have a filter and heater now, although the new filter obviously isn't cycled. I'm wondering can I take some media from my current filter whenever I need to use the quarantine tank....or should I put some media from the new filter into my main tank and have it cycling there…is it enough just to float it in the tank?

Sorry, loads of questions...

 

[minxfishy]

Not sure on the medication for ottos.

You can either run the new filter in the main tank permanently that way it will be instantly cycled when you need it, or place the media from it into your existing filter if you have the space and then take it out for use when needed.