I lost 17 fish today

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Jan Cavalieri

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The loss occurred after a massive water change. I'm the one with the weird brown slime algae (it also turns white sometimes). My assistant was no longer under quarantine for COVID so she came over last night and did a water change on my 60 gallon tank. This tank primarily contains Rainbow fish as well as my Blue Phantom Pleco that I've had 2 years - made me sick. At over $100 I probably won't be replacing him for a while. I also had a couple of Dojos and some Leopord spotted loaches left in a 29 gallon tank. In fact, just that evening we decided to retire that 29 gal tank - there were only 5 fish in it - two dojos, the two Leopard loaches and a Bristlenose Pleco. All these fish except the Bristlenose Pleco was moved to the 60 gallon tank. The bristlenose went to a 29 gallon tank where there are more places for her to hide. I don't THINK the mere act of moving fish to a tank will kill 17 fish. There were already dojos in there so the other fish shouldn't have been too freaked by their crazy antics. The two Leopard loaches are pretty hyper so I suppose they could cause some stress but not THIS MUCH.

Our normal water change process is to remove the decorations, fake plants, sometimes live plants and rinse/scrub off all those thing. Every one was covered in the brownish slime, you have to clean each leaf on a plant individually - it just sticks to it. Then we start draining the water and cleaning the gravel of all the excess garbage at the bottom of the tank. We usually leave the fish in there - we remove 75% or so water depending on the size of the fish. After scrubbing down the walls and cleaning the heater and filter we start filling the tank with large buckets of water. To each bucket of water we add a bit of Prime to deactivate the chlorine and a small amount of Neutral Regulator by Seachem. The regulator is pretty cool in that it changes the PH of any water to 7.0. The PH of my tap water is 9.4 - way to alkaline to put any fish in it so I had to come up with some solution, But because of the various buffers in the water (GH=10, KH=5) over a period of 5-7 days the PH will drift downward to about 6.4 which is still acceptable for most of my fish - by then we are ready to do another water change (always once a week) and it re-sets the PH to 7. I'd like to understand why it drifts down but that's a question for another day.

We're both pretty good at following this pattern every week, no matter who is changing the water but of course sometimes you get complacent and forget to pay attention to what you are doing. That's the ONLY explanation I have for why 17 fish were dead when I got up in the morning, If anybody has any other ideas I'd appreciate it - we are just heartbroken. I'm so glad my bristlenose was in a different tank because she is a big favorite of mine. All the Dojo's survived. Two of the silver female rainbow fish survived and one of the female Albino millennium rainbow fish survived. Nothing else - lost pretty much my entire collection of Rainbow fish which I just purchased in mid-October.

I removed the surviving fish to my 29 gal tank which is becoming pretty crowded so they can't stay long. The 6 Dojo's alone are 8" long. As an attempt to get rid of the brown/white mold We are thinking about removing and cleaning the gravel in the two tanks we plan on using from now on - in fact we might even replace it but that gets pretty expensive. My assistant found something on the internet that supposedly kill this type of mold - they call it white mold and it's actually a fungus. She wants to clean all the decorations and the gravel with this stuff - (NOT the fish). I'll wait until it gets here and read the fine print before I let her use it, especially on the gravel - but we've had problems with losing fish occassionally ever since that brown/white fungus showed up so we want to do everything we can to eradicate it. I don't think the fungus was responsible for killing the 17 fish but what was responsible? And why did some rainbowfish survive when the majority died?

Any other good fungisides out there that are aquarium/fish safe? Do you think we just forgot to add something like Prime when we changed the water? I know we added the Neutral Regulator because PH was at 7l Ammonia was a 1,0 (no surprise since 17 fish died and floated around for a few hours at least, Nitrites were zero and Nitrates were 5.0 - pretty much what they always are.

Any help is appreciated.
 
Any possibility either one of you had hand sanitizer of any kind on your hands?

I'm sorry to see you lost so many :( thats horrible to go through.

Did you test the parameters between both tanks at all to see if there was any difference between them at all?
 
I don't have any educated guess for you but I just wanted to say I am so sorry for the loss of your fish. We lost our first one today and my daughter is heartbroken. I can't imagine 17. So sorry.
 
Sorry to hear you lost them Jan.

My guess is you chlorinated them. Rainbowfish are more sensitive to chemicals than loaches and if you lost a heap of them straight after a water change, it was something in the new water (chlorine/ chloramine, something else).

Did any of the rainbowfish have black patches on their body?
If yes, this is chemical burns from whatever was in the water.

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Use salt or bleach to clean ornaments, white vinegar would probably work too. Get a bucket of tap water and put the ornaments in it (rinse ornaments first). Then add a heap of salt. Add so much salt it no longer dissolves. Leave the ornaments in the salt water for 24 hours, take them out and rinse with tap water and they should be clean.

Soak ornaments in straight white vinegar (don't dilute it) for a few hours (or overnight) and then rinse and put them back in the tank.

If they are plastic ornaments, you can put them in a bucket and add a bottle of liquid household bleach. Use it straight (don't dilute it). Leave the ornaments in the bleach for an hour, then take them out and wash well under tap water. Leave out in the sun for a day or two until they no longer smell of bleach. Then rinse again and put in the tank.

*** WARNING ***
If you are using bleach (and you shouldn't due to your health issues), do the bleach outside in fresh air.
Wear safety glasses and rubber gloves.
Don't inhale the fumes or get bleach on your skin.
 
I'm wondering if maybe the large PH swings from 9.4 tap water to 7.0 after adding the ph altering chemical to 6.4 over the course of a week is affecting your fish. If the ph isn't stable that could be affecting the health of your fish. Or maybe use 1/2 regular tap and 1/2 RO water if you can setup an RO water system in you place and ditch the PH altering chemicals.

But the fact that your ammonia was 1 ppm probably contributed to your loss. Sounds like for some reason, you lost your cycle. Is the flow through your filter adequate....if it clogs and slows way down, that could affect your cycle somewhat.

Otherwise, you'd probably do better with all African Cichlids which likes harder water and a higher PH.
 
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Sorry for your losses, this can always a problem if you are going to do large water changes and is why I stick to 25% weekly.
 
75% water changes are far too much. From years of doing it, 40% is about the most you can change and dose and not have much problems. 30% is safer yet and also avoids Crypt melt for those who have them.
Rainbows are sensitive..loaches too to big changes even if you treat the water.
Also all the scrubbing and gravel cleaning and water change? You removed most of the bacteria out of aged water that makes life possible in an aquarium for fish and creatures.
 
I lost an entire tank years back from a water change. Did a maybe 30% change, routine, and within an hour the fish were swimming all crazy, bouncing off everything. About 10 minutes of frantic panic, they were still. Entire tank. Nothing changed from any other change we were doing back then. Same dechlorinator. Same process (we were much stricter back then...buckets....the whole 9 yards), same everything. Never did figure out what happened. We just assumed that for some reason there was something in the water we couldn't test for.

75% is not too much to change. My LFS does 75 to 80% water changes on their systems every week. I thought the same until I seen them do it. They laughed at me when I said they were nuts. Most of their tanks have UGF's in them as well, which I thought odd, but, they have been around for over 50 years in that location. From the look of the place...I believe it.

Barring a massive temp swing, perhaps you are right that somewhere something got missed. I lost an entire 10 gallon full of guppies and mollies about. 4 years ago because the temp change was too drastic (I did not monitor the temp as I should have and it got about 8 degrees warmer than it should have been). Killed the entire tank, with exception to my albino bristlenose. Still have that guy. He survived quite a bit of mishaps come to think. Tough lil fishie.
 
Remember that LFS's and importers have the ability to do all sorts of things that the average home aquarist can only dream about. When I imported fish it was common for us to do 90% water changes, would I advise a home aquarist to do it, no way.
 
But the fact that your ammonia was 1 ppm probably contributed to your loss. Sounds like for some reason, you lost your cycle. Is the flow through your filter adequate....if it clogs and slows way down, that could affect your cycle somewhat.
The ammonia could be from dead fish or chloramine in the water supply.


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Remember that LFS's and importers have the ability to do all sorts of things that the average home aquarist can only dream about. When I imported fish it was common for us to do 90% water changes, would I advise a home aquarist to do it, no way.

if you can do that at a quarantine facility there's no reason the home aquarist can't do it to.
 
The ammonia could be from dead fish or chloramine in the water supply.


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Remember that LFS's and importers have the ability to do all sorts of things that the average home aquarist can only dream about. When I imported fish it was common for us to do 90% water changes, would I advise a home aquarist to do it, no way.

if you can do that at a quarantine facility there's no reason the home aquarist can't do it to.
I don't agree, That what importers can do everyone can do, inaccurate and bad advise
 
Well I think everybody mentioned just about everything that's been going through my mind. That the high ammonia could have come from forgetting to put prime in the water or just because we had so many dead fish. I do think it was from so many bad fish - if we had just forgotten to put Prime in we would have seen a reaction immediately. We didn't. I was in the room a couple of hours after the water change cleaning the room's bathroom and updating records and feeding fish - all seemed normal. I did NOT do a reading of the tank they are in now but they are still alive. It's PH would have been just slightly lower than the tank we did the water change on.

I'm so bad about overfeeding (although I'll swear the next day the food is gone, it's just not always gone in 2 or 10 minutes) I've got half pellet eaters and 1/2 flake eaters. The pellet eaters can take 10-30 minutes to "graze" on the pellets - I think they want them to be softer.

In my opinion are tanks always look messy and dirty to me within a day or two after a water change, so that's why I started doing such frequent water changes.

As far as what to do - I want to rinse all my gravel in salt water - put it in a large pot with a lot of salt and have it sit for a few minutes then rinse and add to the aquarium (I have about 120 pounds of black clay substrate so there isn't enough room to soak that much gravel for days on end. ) My assistant and I can't even agree what the stuff looks like - she keeps calling it "white fungus" which attacks plastic. It's not white. It's very much like a clear brown mucus that floats around in sheets and attaches itself to anything - plants, decorations etc. It doesn't kill fish - we've been the only ones to kill fish because of this mucus stuff.

So she's mad at me because I'm not agreeing with her but I need her to move all this gravel and stuff so we can try to get rid of the mucus.

Another known cause is over feeding - and who on this forum is the most famous for overfeeding? (ME!!!!! I LOVE MY FISH SO MUCH THAT I KILL THEM WITH FOOD).

It's about 3:30 am here in Kansas so I'm going to sleep on this and hope I or somebody comes up with a good, easy to do, solution, As always - thanks for all of your help it's been great.
 
My assistant and I can't even agree what the stuff looks like - she keeps calling it "white fungus" which attacks plastic. It's not white. It's very much like a clear brown mucus that floats around in sheets and attaches itself to anything - plants, decorations etc. It doesn't kill fish - we've been the only ones to kill fish because of this mucus stuff.
Post pictures of the stuff
 
I don't agree, That what importers can do everyone can do, inaccurate and bad advise
Please elaborate to explain your reason for doing 90% water changes in a quarantine/ importing facility but not recommending the average home aquarist do it.

Why shouldn't the home aquarist do it if importers do it?
 
I posted these on another thread if they look familiar. Wish I could get a shot of the sheets of this stuff that sometimes just float around. The first picture is what it looks like on a tissue, the second picture is what it does to the basket of an AquaClear filter sometimes several times a day - it also covers the sponge so heavily we have to rinse it out and say to hell with the good bacteria we're losing but the sponge won't work when it's so covered by gunk/slime/fungus whatever it is.
 

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