I Dont Know How To Proceed :-(

[spongy]

I'm not sure on what to do here,

I started up a new tank in June, after a 20 year break as an early teenager and things were going well,

Until 2 weeks ago anyway, at first I cycled the tank, and introduced 3 Cory and 6 Cardinal Tetra, then 2 weeks later 6 harlequin then 4 paradise fish etc keeping an eye on ammonia etc until my stock was

3 Corys
10 Cardinal Tetra
6 Harlequin
3 Paradise fish
2 Bolivian Ram
1 Electric Blue Ram
2 Dwarf Cichlid

I woke up one morning to find a dead dwarf cichlid, which annoyed me as they were only 2 weeks old.

Everything was fine again until 2 weeks ago, when I lost all 3 Rams within 2 days, and a paradise fish on the third.

I did another water test and everything looked good but I paniced and did a partial water change during which a female paradise fish jumped out without me noticing and died.

I've been on the tropical emergency section speaking to @wilder who has been trying to help and am just finishing my second treatment of an anti internal bacteria treatment but fish keep dying, its upsetting me and also pissing me right off.

I still have as far as I can tell, 6 healthy harlequin and a healthy male paradise fish but my Cardinals are suffering, I've lost another 2 this morning.

On Friday evening they looked healthy but on Saturday morning 3 were missing tails, I'm presuming they started to look sick and were attacked but I'm not sure.

After this treatment I'm going to start a sera nematol course to rule out worms but I'm running out of hope.

If this doesn't work and I lose my stock how do I start again? Do diseases live in the water or are they dormant in the fish?

If the worst does happen can I treat an empty tank for everything then re stock? Will I have to re cycle my tank, obviously my stock is dwindling, how is this affecting my good bacteria? Is it dying off too?

I'm at a lost end with a severely dented conscience and confidence.

I know I should have a quarantine tank but I don't have enough space

Any advice please?

 

[stu40]

Is the tank a 180L Vision, standard internal filter.
I may be way off with this, but you've stocked quite a bit & quickly in an immature tank.I know you've been testing the water, but...
Also are your 'Paradise fish' Macropodus Opercularis ?
I don't know much about them, but they don't seem to be community friendly Paradise fish. I'd be more worried about the remaining one than anything.Anyway to remove it for the time being?

 

[DrRob]

Don't get too worried about the quarantine tank. Lots of us don't have them. They're great if you do, but they do tend to just get filled with fish.....

It sounds like you're having a bad run. Not sure without looking what Wilder has been going through with you. Just to keep things clear here, what size tank and what sort of water parameters have you got, and what are you aiming for? If we know the latter then we can advise you on the moves to make now that will hopefully end in the tank that you're hoping to keep in the long run.

 

[fluttermoth]

Sorry to hear of your troubles, mate

How did you cycle the tank? Have you tested the water, and if so, what were the results?

Rams are a notoriously difficult fish to keep, and cardinals/neons often don't do well in new tanks, even if they're properly cycled.

Your bacteria will die back as your stocking goes down, but you won't lose them all, by any means. There are a very few fish diseases that can survive for any length of time, so if the worst comes to the worst, you could run the tank empty for about three weeks, although you would, of course, have to feed the bacteria during that time.

 

[spongy]

It's a vision 180 with an exteral fluval 205, the Bolivian rams seemed to be fine for 6 weeks,

I did a fish in cycle, and started the process with aqua pure? Not sure on the exact name, little clear dissolvable balls that I put in the filter, I'm well planted too to help with nitrate.

And didn't suffer with any ammonia spikes either...

My water readings were good, from the thread in emergencies.....

Here are some answers for you. I dont have the best test kits but Im reading them as

Ammonia - less than 0.5ppm,
NO3 - 25mg/l
NO2 - 0mg/l
PH - between 7.2 and 7.6 (hard to tell exactly, between 2 readings


I don't have the best test kits but the ammonia is closer to 0 than 0.5 ppm when I look at it.

I added the electric blue ram with the dwarf cichlid, my guess is that the first cichlid to die was sick when bought and has infected the others and is wiping out my tank

The harlequins look perfectly fine, sorry I'm on phone at work so can't confirm the species of paradise fish but its part of the gourami family.

 

[Lolly123]

maybe you could invest in a better test kit? Would be hard to gauge how accurate your readings are if your kit is not that reliable.

In a properly cycled tank you shouldn't be reading ammonia. Also, I think the general consensus is that the bacteria boosters that are sold are not generally of any help to your cycling process. I have never used them or would recommend them, but it is hard when first starting out recognising which advice to follow and which to ignore.

It seems strange that you haven't had any ammonia spikes, naturally you'd see this when going through first stages of a cycle, once thats being processed then you should see readings for nitrite etc.

My guess would be is that your tank isn't fully established yet and you may well be still going through a cycle and with a questionable test kit your readings may be misleading you. But I haven't followed the posts between you and wilder so this would just be a process of elimination.

 

[MBOU]

I would return the Paradise fish to the shop tbh, if you get community dwelling Paradise its a one off, they are known to be really aggressive, especially the males and will definately nip fins, harrass and bully fish and even kill their own females.... seeing as its your male thats still left... i would definately think its him.

 

[N0body Of The Goat]

I would return the Paradise fish to the shop tbh, if you get community dwelling Paradise its a one off, they are known to be really aggressive, especially the males and will definately nip fins, harrass and bully fish and even kill their own females.... seeing as its your male thats still left... i would definately think its him.

As above, plus Paradise Fish are not a tropical species, they are temperate like White Cloud Mountain Minnow (which would be a perfect biotope as they are found alongside each other in the wild) which under normal circumstances should be in a heaterless tank that change temp with the seasons.

5 dwarf cichlids from 3 species is an awful lot of cichlids for a 180l, they will compete for territory and the weakest will die if you do nothing.

 

[snazy]

A lot of advise given already, but double check the ammonia readings with a better test as 0.50 ppm in the course of days will still cause death to your fish too, besides the stress of incompatible fish that normally get even more aggressive when stressed from bad water conditions.

 

[Caz Hewer]

I'm not sure on what to do here,

I started up a new tank in June, after a 20 year break as an early teenager and things were going well,

Until 2 weeks ago anyway, at first I cycled the tank, and introduced 3 Cory and 6 Cardinal Tetra, then 2 weeks later 6 harlequin then 4 paradise fish etc keeping an eye on ammonia etc until my stock was

3 Corys
10 Cardinal Tetra
6 Harlequin
3 Paradise fish
2 Bolivian Ram
1 Electric Blue Ram
2 Dwarf Cichlid

I woke up one morning to find a dead dwarf cichlid, which annoyed me as they were only 2 weeks old.

Everything was fine again until 2 weeks ago, when I lost all 3 Rams within 2 days, and a paradise fish on the third.

I did another water test and everything looked good but I paniced and did a partial water change during which a female paradise fish jumped out without me noticing and died.

I've been on the tropical emergency section speaking to @wilder who has been trying to help and am just finishing my second treatment of an anti internal bacteria treatment but fish keep dying, its upsetting me and also pissing me right off.

I still have as far as I can tell, 6 healthy harlequin and a healthy male paradise fish but my Cardinals are suffering, I've lost another 2 this morning.

On Friday evening they looked healthy but on Saturday morning 3 were missing tails, I'm presuming they started to look sick and were attacked but I'm not sure.

After this treatment I'm going to start a sera nematol course to rule out worms but I'm running out of hope.

If this doesn't work and I lose my stock how do I start again? Do diseases live in the water or are they dormant in the fish?

If the worst does happen can I treat an empty tank for everything then re stock? Will I have to re cycle my tank, obviously my stock is dwindling, how is this affecting my good bacteria? Is it dying off too?

I'm at a lost end with a severely dented conscience and confidence.

I know I should have a quarantine tank but I don't have enough space

Any advice please?

 

[Caz Hewer]

Hi, I know that feeling all too well,i have been keeping tropical fish now for around 10 years,ive specialised in malawi cichlids now as i have learnt my lessons and am now quite good at it
I have a very good relationship with my fish supplier,where i can ask him any questions without being made to feel like an idiot!!
I now do 40% water changes every week( you may not need to do it so often as malawi cichlids are very dirty fish)
I get my water checked once a month by my supplier and if there is a problem he will advise!!
I also use 10 drops of eSHa-2000 after every water change s this kills anything nasty that will harm the fish in anyway!! You can use this for a serious treatment(asi have have before) but now i use it as a preventative measure!! All my fish seem very happy. I hope this helps in some way! The feeling of helplessness is horrid!!

 

[magpie]

I agree, it's worth spending the extra money on a good drip test kit. Did you ever test nitrites and nitrates?

Rams need very good water quality to thrive, and I also agree that you have too many dwarf cichlids in your tank. What is your "dwarf cichlid"? That term is used for a large group of fish (the Bolivian and Blue Rams are a part of that group.)
The Blue Rams are even more sensitive to water quality than the Bolivians, and they generally thrive in a higher temperature. Bolivians are more tolerant to parameters, but still require an established tank with high quality water to do well.

I'm sorry you've gone through all of this loss, it's certainly really stressful and disheartening. Hopefully you can get back on track. I had a large loss a while back - I still to this day don't know if it was due to gill flukes or due to a piece of wood that I put in the tank. It wasn't fun and I went through a few phases where I thought "why am I even doing this?" But I got everything stabilized out and have had a very happy, deathless tank since. And am happy that I stuck with it.

Do you have any live plants?