How Small Is Small?

[Aliena]

When I get my big tank (hopefully Feb / March next year) I am considering Angels as my 'centrepiece fish'. I will be getting a 'tall enough for angels' 260 - 300l tank so should be big enough.

When I do get it my daughters will be having the small tank and will no doubt want to choose their own fish so mine will be moved.

I know angels can eat small fish and I've heard the comments about if a fish is small enough to go in an angels mouth it will eat it. But I really have no idea how small that would be!! I don't want to buy fish now for my small tank that will just get eaten when they are moved to the bigger tank in a few months but equally I can't go too big in the 60l tank I have now.

So, can anyone give me a rough idea of how big my fish need to be to avoid becoming angel food or an adult angel? Then I can tailor my stocking list to my future plans.

Another fish my OH likes for the big tank (not the 60l!) is the red tailed black shark. Are they likely to nip the angels fins or otherwise upset them? If so he'll have to get a tank of his own if he wants one!

 

[drobbyb]

IIRC (my memory is bad!!!) Someone said on here that neons are small enough but cardinals are pretty well safe. Of course I could be wrong, so hopefully someone will come along that can either confirm or deny this claim.

Your tank choice as far as capacity will be fine as long as the tank is at least 18 inches from the top of the gravel to the top of the water.

 

[Aliena]

IIRC (my memory is bad!!!) Someone said on here that neons are small enough but cardinals are pretty well safe. Of course I could be wrong, so hopefully someone will come along that can either confirm or deny this claim.

Your tank choice as far as capacity will be fine as long as the tank is at least 18 inches from the top of the gravel to the top of the water.

Considering various tanks, all around 55cm (just under 22 in) deep or more so ok there. Still not sure on the angels because I worry about agression being a problem. LFS says that if I want more than one to keep at least 5 to avoid that which seems to fit with other things I have read.

 

[waterdrop]

The thing we all struggle with in these angel discussions is partly that angels are cichlids and have a bit of the "individual personality" characteristic. There's basically no way to know ahead of time what the personalities of your particular 5 (or however many) angels will be! My feeling though, is that a person, who talks about them as you do, really needs to just go ahead and experience them. There's a very good chance that the problems we describe may turn out to be non-existent for you. And this may be especially true in the kind of nice environment you are prepared to offer them, a really nice large tank, just like they like, and with height!

Here are some more tips that I know of that could help you have the best possibility of an ideal experience. First of all, I wouldn't draw much distinction between neons vs. cardinals. Either of them can be pretty small and frail when they are young or can be bigger and tougher when they are older. The first significant thing to understand is that they really need that 6 months time of having the tank age (not related to cycling!) before they are introduced... and then, if they are young, they will need some growing time. After that, they will be ready. Its important that they be established in the tank, ideally in big shoals, prior to introducing the baby angels. When the baby angels are introduced into an established tank with neons/cards who already feel at home, the anglels will most often just think of them as -not- something to eat. Its not a guarantee now, but its a good chance and it will take the angels quite a while to get so big that they will be ready to "pick off" a passing neon/card. By that time they will usually just ignore them because they've grown up with them and of course, partly because you are feeding the angels well!

Now I know this sounds awful, the idea of all this time going by without your centerpiece being in the tank! But consider how many beautiful angel types there are out there! Go to the angelfish society and read up and consider trying to find breeders or sources for the types you'd really like to have. All that can occupy you and take quite a while, during which time the tank will be aging and the neons/cards will be growing. Don't give up on the combo, its a great one as these two live naturally together in the Amazon (yes, the neon/card shoals are food for the angels there!) and they both like the soft, acid water (that presumably was part of your choice for these type fish!) They are a striking combo in a big tank like you have. I've never really felt that I found any magic related to grouping numbers with angels (1,2,3,5?) so I'll defer to Tolak or other experts on that -- I've always felt their individual personalities were a stronger factor than the grouping, unless it was quite large -- I'd enjoy hearing others opinions on that! But on the neons/cards its obvious that a great huge shoal (bounded by your overall stocking plan of course) is the way to go, as big as can work out!

~~waterdrop~~