How Many Fish Is Too Many?

HughÉire

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Hi, i am just wondering how many fish is too many? I have a well established 96 litre (25.36 gallons) tank with plenty of vegetation. I recently added an oxygen bubbler as i feared the number of fish would deplete the oxygen too quickly. I have as follows:

1 Angelfish
1 Bengal (Queen) loach
1 Zebra loach
1 (very small) Red Tailed Black Shark
1 Twig Catfish
2 Leopard Danios
2 Bala Shark
3 Odessa Barbs
12 Guppies
10 Black Mollies
10 Neon Tetras

I have had no notable problems with aggression, lack of space or any other incompatibilities. All fish seem healthy and doing well but would just like some reassurance if anyone has an opinion on the topic.

Thanks
 
you will need to remove the bala sharks for certain they will grow way too big for your tank
How high is your tank?
 
The angelfish, red tailed black shark, bala sharks, twig catfish and bengal loaches will grow too big and active for the tank. The barbs and danio's need to be in larger groups (they are shoaling fish), as do the loaches though. You have too many mollies but the neons are fine.

Are you planning on getting a larger tank and if so, how soon and how large a tank are you getting? Depending on whether you are getting a larger tank soon or not, you should definitely rehome some of the fish i'm afraid, and increase or reduce the numbers of certain others.
 
that is a huge ammount of fish for a 25 gallon tank, arnt they bumping and banging into each other?> thats 44 fish, many of which grow 6 inches or more. You seriously need to think about getting a much much larger tank, or multi tanks or first and better take some fish back and start slower into the hoby.
 
The angelfish, red tailed black shark, bala sharks, twig catfish and bengal loaches will grow too big and active for the tank. The barbs and danio's need to be in larger groups (they are shoaling fish), as do the loaches though. You have too many mollies but the neons are fine.

Are you planning on getting a larger tank and if so, how soon and how large a tank are you getting? Depending on whether you are getting a larger tank soon or not, you should definitely rehome some of the fish i'm afraid, and increase or reduce the numbers of certain others.

My babrs and danios tend to school together and i used to only have 5 mollies, hence the addition of the angelfish to remove fry. I doubt i'll be upgrading anytime soon but all fish have been together happily for nearly two months with no notable problems. I will probably rehome the bala soon. I find the twig catfish very good as it does not dart around tank knocking over plants etc like previous plec i have had so will probably keep him/her.

How would i notice that my tank is suffering from to high a number of fish
 
you will need to remove the bala sharks for certain they will grow way too big for your tank
How high is your tank?

the tank dimensions are 81L x 31H x 46W (cm)

That's around 30 US gallons (~25 UK gallons, which is the volume you gave). Might be a bit short for full grown angelfish. As said above, the bala sharks will far outgrow this tank, and when the RTBS is full grown, he's likely to become a terror and may well kill some of the smaller fish.

How long has the tank been set up? Water stats (Ammonia, nitrite, etc)? I think in the long term, the tank wouldn't work - you've got more considerably more fish than I have in a tank twice the size.

1 Angelfish - 5" (Corrected, for some reason though you had 2 of them)
1 Bengal (Queen) loach - 6"
1 Zebra loach - 4"
1 (very small) Red Tailed Black Shark - 6"
1 Twig Catfish - 6"
2 Leopard Danios - 4"
2 Bala Shark - Potentially 32"
3 Odessa Barbs - 12"
12 Guppies - 24"
10 Black Mollies - 30"
10 Neon Tetras - 15"

That's a total of nearly 150 inches of adult fish once everybody grows up - around 5 inches per gallon. Removing the bala sharks and RTBS will bring it just over 100 inches, still over 3 inches per gallon. The angel is the other potential disaster, since neon tetras are their natural foodsource and may be in trouble once the angel grows up. Without that you're at about 3 inches per gallon.

With VERY strong filtration and frequent water changes, that might work long-term, but honestly you're looking at about a well matured 90+ gallon tank to keep all these fish long-term, and a similarly mature 55 gallon after removing the potential problems.
 
you will need to remove the bala sharks for certain they will grow way too big for your tank
How high is your tank?

the tank dimensions are 81L x 31H x 46W (cm)

That's around 30 US gallons (~25 UK gallons, which is the volume you gave). Might be a bit short for full grown angelfish. As said above, the bala sharks will far outgrow this tank, and when the RTBS is full grown, he's likely to become a terror and may well kill some of the smaller fish.

How long has the tank been set up? Water stats (Ammonia, nitrite, etc)? I think in the long term, the tank wouldn't work - you've got more considerably more fish than I have in a tank twice the size.

1 Angelfish - 5" (Corrected, for some reason though you had 2 of them)
1 Bengal (Queen) loach - 6"
1 Zebra loach - 4"
1 (very small) Red Tailed Black Shark - 6"
1 Twig Catfish - 6"
2 Leopard Danios - 4"
2 Bala Shark - Potentially 32"
3 Odessa Barbs - 12"
12 Guppies - 24"
10 Black Mollies - 30"
10 Neon Tetras - 15"

That's a total of nearly 150 inches of adult fish once everybody grows up - around 5 inches per gallon. Removing the bala sharks and RTBS will bring it just over 100 inches, still over 3 inches per gallon. The angel is the other potential disaster, since neon tetras are their natural foodsource and may be in trouble once the angel grows up. Without that you're at about 3 inches per gallon.

With VERY strong filtration and frequent water changes, that might work long-term, but honestly you're looking at about a well matured 90+ gallon tank to keep all these fish long-term, and a similarly mature 55 gallon after removing the potential problems.


Thanks for that, much apprechiated info. the tank is about 10 months old. The anglefish is only ~3inchs or so but i do realise that the get much bigger so i will have to move on eventually. I do tend on giving half my guppies and mollies to friend who has just purchased tank and the bala will be move on soon also. I didn't realise how big they potentially can get. However I do spend a lot of time looking after my tank, its very important to me. that is primarely why i asked that question as i do not wish for it all to end badly. That tank has been as mentioned above for nearly 2months or 4 months ommitting the additions of the RTBS and the zebra loach (to replace bengal who jumped out during cleaning!)
 
The angelfish, red tailed black shark, bala sharks, twig catfish and bengal loaches will grow too big and active for the tank. The barbs and danio's need to be in larger groups (they are shoaling fish), as do the loaches though. You have too many mollies but the neons are fine.

Are you planning on getting a larger tank and if so, how soon and how large a tank are you getting? Depending on whether you are getting a larger tank soon or not, you should definitely rehome some of the fish i'm afraid, and increase or reduce the numbers of certain others.

My babrs and danios tend to school together and i used to only have 5 mollies, hence the addition of the angelfish to remove fry. I doubt i'll be upgrading anytime soon but all fish have been together happily for nearly two months with no notable problems. I will probably rehome the bala soon. I find the twig catfish very good as it does not dart around tank knocking over plants etc like previous plec i have had so will probably keep him/her.

How would i notice that my tank is suffering from to high a number of fish



The only reason why the barbs and danio's are shoaling together is because they feel they have no other choice, and this is not ideal since it is a sign of discomfort if they are doing this often, increase their numbers to 6 each and reduce the amount of other fish in the tank and you will start to see much healthier more natural/normal behavior in each fish species :nod: .

Both the loaches species are sociable with their own kind and will suffer being kept singularly, they should really be kept in groups of 5+ each, however the tank doesn't have the space for a group of Bengal loaches since they grow to large and active for a tank such as yours- the zebra's should be fine though having their numbers increased to proper levels, however you should rehome the unsuitable fish for the tank first as i can image that the filtration is probably already getting a bit strained with the large bioload of the tank.

The angelfish and RTBS will not get along as the RTBS matures- the shark might be alright for now while it is small, but it will start to become territorial and aggressive as it grows larger and matures, and the angelfish will make a likely target for it since the angelfish is unlikely to back down in any dispute with the RTBS but neither is it fast enough or agile enough to out-swim it. The Shark has the potential to outgrow the tank, although might not necessarily do so- however there is a good chance that it will pick on certain other fish in the tank as it grows, it depends on the personality of the shark, so you should keep an eye on it and rehome it if it shows any sign of very aggressive/territorial behavior, since onces it starts behaving that way it is very unlikely that it will get any better.

If your mollys are breeding out of control, the best idea would be to cull any fry that you do not want- either that, or see if you can rehome the extra mollys at your local fish store or on the forum etc.

Based on the actual dimensions of the tank, i would actually say now that you could get away with the twig catfish. Personally, if i had your tank and fish stocking, i would advise changing it to look more like this;

8 neon tetras
6 leopard danios
6 odesa barbs
5 zebra loaches
6 guppys (2 male 4 female)
4 mollys (1 male 3 female)
1 twig catfish

And rehome the bala shark, angelfish, RTBS, Bengal loach and some of the mollys, guppys and neons :nod: . The fish will display much better colors and behavior once you sort the tanks stocking out for the fishes benefit- if you think they look good now, they will look even better once you have the tanks stocking more ideal for the fishes sake (another plus is that the tank will stay cleaner and the fish will be less likely to suffer health problems etc) :nod: . For example, zebra loaches display great behavior when kept in proper size groups in tanks with stocking more suited to their needs- a single zebra loach on its own cannot shine etc.
 
The angelfish, red tailed black shark, bala sharks, twig catfish and bengal loaches will grow too big and active for the tank. The barbs and danio's need to be in larger groups (they are shoaling fish), as do the loaches though. You have too many mollies but the neons are fine.

Are you planning on getting a larger tank and if so, how soon and how large a tank are you getting? Depending on whether you are getting a larger tank soon or not, you should definitely rehome some of the fish i'm afraid, and increase or reduce the numbers of certain others.

My babrs and danios tend to school together and i used to only have 5 mollies, hence the addition of the angelfish to remove fry. I doubt i'll be upgrading anytime soon but all fish have been together happily for nearly two months with no notable problems. I will probably rehome the bala soon. I find the twig catfish very good as it does not dart around tank knocking over plants etc like previous plec i have had so will probably keep him/her.

How would i notice that my tank is suffering from to high a number of fish



The only reason why the barbs and danio's are shoaling together is because they feel they have no other choice, and this is not ideal since it is a sign of discomfort if they are doing this often, increase their numbers to 6 each and reduce the amount of other fish in the tank and you will start to see much healthier more natural/normal behavior in each fish species :nod: .

Both the loaches species are sociable with their own kind and will suffer being kept singularly, they should really be kept in groups of 5+ each, however the tank doesn't have the space for a group of Bengal loaches since they grow to large and active for a tank such as yours- the zebra's should be fine though having their numbers increased to proper levels, however you should rehome the unsuitable fish for the tank first as i can image that the filtration is probably already getting a bit strained with the large bioload of the tank.

The angelfish and RTBS will not get along as the RTBS matures- the shark might be alright for now while it is small, but it will start to become territorial and aggressive as it grows larger and matures, and the angelfish will make a likely target for it since the angelfish is unlikely to back down in any dispute with the RTBS but neither is it fast enough or agile enough to out-swim it. The Shark has the potential to outgrow the tank, although might not necessarily do so- however there is a good chance that it will pick on certain other fish in the tank as it grows, it depends on the personality of the shark, so you should keep an eye on it and rehome it if it shows any sign of very aggressive/territorial behavior, since onces it starts behaving that way it is very unlikely that it will get any better.

If your mollys are breeding out of control, the best idea would be to cull any fry that you do not want- either that, or see if you can rehome the extra mollys at your local fish store or on the forum etc.

Based on the actual dimensions of the tank, i would actually say now that you could get away with the twig catfish. Personally, if i had your tank and fish stocking, i would advise changing it to look more like this;

8 neon tetras
6 leopard danios
6 odesa barbs
5 zebra loaches
6 guppys (2 male 4 female)
4 mollys (1 male 3 female)
1 twig catfish

And rehome the bala shark, angelfish, RTBS, Bengal loach and some of the mollys, guppys and neons :nod: . The fish will display much better colors and behavior once you sort the tanks stocking out for the fishes benefit- if you think they look good now, they will look even better once you have the tanks stocking more ideal for the fishes sake (another plus is that the tank will stay cleaner and the fish will be less likely to suffer health problems etc) :nod: . For example, zebra loaches display great behavior when kept in proper size groups in tanks with stocking more suited to their needs- a single zebra loach on its own cannot shine etc.


Thanks ver y mch for that info, i new this forum was a good idea. Hve you any idea how quick the RTBS wil grow and i do like its colour etc?! I do plan on relocating some guppies ans mollies
 
If it's stable for the time being, rather than suggesting rehoming lots of fish (it's good that the balas are being moved on at least), you could consider (if its affordable) getting a bigger tank and starting a fishless cycle on it.

Since the balas are being rehomed and the livebearers are being reduced, I'd suggest a 55, if you can afford it and have room for it. After rehoming the bala sharks and half of the livebearers, I think it should work, and may, after a couple months maturing, allow for some additions.

Just to double check, with the rehoming you mentioned, your stocking looks something like this:


1 Angelfish - 5"
1 Bengal (Queen) loach - 6"
1 Zebra loach - 4"
1 (very small) Red Tailed Black Shark - 6"
1 Twig Catfish - 6"
2 Leopard Danios - 4"
3 Odessa Barbs - 12"
6 Guppies - 12"
5 Black Mollies - 15"
10 Neon Tetras - 15"

About 85 inches. Still 2.8 inches per gallon (the general rule is 1 inch per US gallon, with good filtration and maintenance 1.5-2 inches per gallon is doable in a 6 month old mature tank, depending on who you ask).

If you have some major heavy duty filtration, it might work, but IMO you might still be looking at an upgrade to about 55 gallons to keep them safely in the long term (This will give you 1.5 inches per gallon, and does leave one potential future headache in place if the angelfish grows up and starts eating neons).
 
If it's stable for the time being, rather than suggesting rehoming lots of fish (it's good that the balas are being moved on at least), you could consider (if its affordable) getting a bigger tank and starting a fishless cycle on it.

Since the balas are being rehomed and the livebearers are being reduced, I'd suggest a 55, if you can afford it and have room for it. After rehoming the bala sharks and half of the livebearers, I think it should work, and may, after a couple months maturing, allow for some additions.

Just to double check, with the rehoming you mentioned, your stocking looks something like this:


1 Angelfish - 5"
1 Bengal (Queen) loach - 6"
1 Zebra loach - 4"
1 (very small) Red Tailed Black Shark - 6"
1 Twig Catfish - 6"
2 Leopard Danios - 4"
3 Odessa Barbs - 12"
6 Guppies - 12"
5 Black Mollies - 15"
10 Neon Tetras - 15"

About 85 inches. Still 2.8 inches per gallon (the general rule is 1 inch per US gallon, with good filtration and maintenance 1.5-2 inches per gallon is doable in a 6 month old mature tank, depending on who you ask).

If you have some major heavy duty filtration, it might work, but IMO you might still be looking at an upgrade to about 55 gallons to keep them safely in the long term (This will give you 1.5 inches per gallon, and does leave one potential future headache in place if the angelfish grows up and starts eating neons).


i will consider thank you
 
Thanks ver y mch for that info, i new this forum was a good idea. Hve you any idea how quick the RTBS wil grow and i do like its colour etc?! I do plan on relocating some guppies ans mollies


No problem :good: . With the shark it really varies a lot as to when they start to become less sociable- when i got mine i adopted it of a friend and it had already become quite territorial at about 3-4inches long. But with other people have heard their RTBS getting territorial at 5inches or even 2icnhes long- so it really varies a lot, RTBS's individual personalities can vary a great deal. While not all RTBS become territorial towards other fish, most do at some point- the level of aggression can vary massively though, some will go for pretty much every fish in the tank, while others will only target fish which have similar coloring or patterning to the RTBS, or will only target slow moving fish or fish which like the same space/habitat in the tank as what the RTBS likes etc.
So basically just keep an eye on it, chances are it will become territorial to a certain extent as it grows, however it might not be too bad, however if it does start to become quite aggressive you should be prepared to rehome the shark or get it its own tank ASAP :nod: .
 
Thanks ver y mch for that info, i new this forum was a good idea. Hve you any idea how quick the RTBS wil grow and i do like its colour etc?! I do plan on relocating some guppies ans mollies


No problem :good: . With the shark it really varies a lot as to when they start to become less sociable- when i got mine i adopted it of a friend and it had already become quite territorial at about 3-4inches long. But with other people have heard their RTBS getting territorial at 5inches or even 2icnhes long- so it really varies a lot, RTBS's individual personalities can vary a great deal. While not all RTBS become territorial towards other fish, most do at some point- the level of aggression can vary massively though, some will go for pretty much every fish in the tank, while others will only target fish which have similar coloring or patterning to the RTBS, or will only target slow moving fish or fish which like the same space/habitat in the tank as what the RTBS likes etc.
So basically just keep an eye on it, chances are it will become territorial to a certain extent as it grows, however it might not be too bad, however if it does start to become quite aggressive you should be prepared to rehome the shark or get it its own tank ASAP :nod: .

Brilliant thanks!! :good:
 
Good luck with sorting the fish stocking out, keep us updated on your tank/fish (particularly if you consider that new tank idea ;) ) if you have the time- remember that there is also a buy/sell/swap section on the forum too if you want to try it out :thumbs: .
 

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