How Did It Die?

rocknurworld2006

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One of my malawis got in a little fight and i seperated it to heal its fins it wasnt to bad at all.

it died 2 days later
these were the symptoms

upside floating
fins flaking away and falling off
scales coming off
bleeding from fins
bad white discolouration of body and head not fungus

wat u think?> :sick:
 
Size of tank in gallons or litres.
How any fish and which type.
Water stats in ammonia, nitrite, nitrate, and ph.
The fish had septicemia but can be caused by columnaris aswell as dirty water, and open wounds.
Any signs of flicking and rubbing.
<a href="http://www.flippersandfins.net/flexibacter.htm" target="_blank">http://www.flippersandfins.net/flexibacter.htm</a>

77gallon
malawis- it did take a bit of a beating but not much fin nipping etc i isolated anyway but all syptoms i mentioned happened after wards

all parameters fine no problems

no signs of flicking or rubbing at all no signs of visible parasites
 
Sounded like columnaris to me with the white colouration, was it beneath the skin.
It can also look like the skin is peeling away.
Also fish can come down with septicemia with columnaris.
Also scales falling off and septicemia can also be fish tb.

Taken from the link provided.
The signs of Flexibacter infection run the gamut from fuzzy lesions of the mouth (“Mouth Fungus”) to septicemia (infection in the bloodstream) to white fuzzy patches scattered over the body, sometimes so severe as to cause the skin to look as if it is shedding or peeling, with the fins disintegrating. Due to the white fuzzy patches, Flexibacter also goes by the layterm, “Cotton Wool Disease” and this infection is so common in mollies that it carries the common names of “Black Molly Disease” and “Mad Molly Disease” with mollies often exhibiting “shimmying”. Often the fuzzy patch will be located on the fish’s back, surrounding the dorsal (top) fin, having the characteristic look to it of a saddle, giving rise to the term “saddle-back lesion”. These lesions may also be found on the fins (fin rot), especially on the caudal (tail) fin and on the gills. The natural course of “Mouth Fungus” is that the white fuzzies or patches are followed within a day or two by redness, ulceration and necrosis, which means that the mouth quickly turns into a gnarly mess!





Fish tb symtoms.
Loss of appetite
Progressive thinness
Sluggish movement
Folded fins
Eye protrusion
Dark coloration and granular appearance of the cornea (this is the first sign in Angelfish).
Skeletal deformity
Hanging at the surface
Skin defects, including blood spots and open wounds that may ulcerate
Black spots, or overall dark coloration (in Cichlids particularly).
Fin rot, characterised by the outer rays falling out.
Scales loosening and falling out
General swelling and scale protrusion (as in Dropsy)
 
Sounded like columnaris to me with the white colouration, was it beneath the skin.
It can also look like the skin is peeling away.
Also fish can come down with septicemia with columnaris.
Also scales falling off and septicemia can also be fish tb.

Taken from the link provided.
The signs of Flexibacter infection run the gamut from fuzzy lesions of the mouth (“Mouth Fungus”) to septicemia (infection in the bloodstream) to white fuzzy patches scattered over the body, sometimes so severe as to cause the skin to look as if it is shedding or peeling, with the fins disintegrating. Due to the white fuzzy patches, Flexibacter also goes by the layterm, “Cotton Wool Disease” and this infection is so common in mollies that it carries the common names of “Black Molly Disease” and “Mad Molly Disease” with mollies often exhibiting “shimmying”. Often the fuzzy patch will be located on the fish’s back, surrounding the dorsal (top) fin, having the characteristic look to it of a saddle, giving rise to the term “saddle-back lesion”. These lesions may also be found on the fins (fin rot), especially on the caudal (tail) fin and on the gills. The natural course of “Mouth Fungus” is that the white fuzzies or patches are followed within a day or two by redness, ulceration and necrosis, which means that the mouth quickly turns into a gnarly mess!





Fish tb symtoms.
Loss of appetite
Progressive thinness
Sluggish movement
Folded fins
Eye protrusion
Dark coloration and granular appearance of the cornea (this is the first sign in Angelfish).
Skeletal deformity
Hanging at the surface
Skin defects, including blood spots and open wounds that may ulcerate
Black spots, or overall dark coloration (in Cichlids particularly).
Fin rot, characterised by the outer rays falling out.
Scales loosening and falling out
General swelling and scale protrusion (as in Dropsy)



thanks wilder

yesim thinking septicemia by this, can this develop very quickly?
 
Once septicemia progresses it hard to cure as it blood poisoning.
R.I.P. Bless him.
It sounded like columnaris to me it has many disguises and can show itself in many ways, like white bleaching beneath the skin.
 
Once septicemia progresses it hard to cure as it blood poisoning.
R.I.P. Bless him.
It sounded like columnaris to me it has many disguises and can show itself in many ways, like white bleaching beneath the skin.


yes could be , no other fish are affected can it spread easily
 
Columnaris lives in the background thats why its important to keep up with water changes and gravel vacs.
it only takes a stressed fish to break out in columnaris, if its a bad strain it can wipe a tank out in less than aday.
Just do some water changes to dilute the bacteria down in your tank.
Good luck.
 
Columnaris lives in the background thats why its important to keep up with water changes and gravel vacs.
it only takes a stressed fish to break out in columnaris, if its a bad strain it can wipe a tank out in less than aday.
Just do some water changes to dilute the bacteria down in your tank.
Good luck.



ok will do thanks alot wilder.

great help as always :good:
 
I had exactly the same happen to one of my Malawis this week... So you have all my sympathy.

My experience, for the record, was identicle to this - except that my tank is 80 UK gallons:

77gallon
malawis- it did take a bit of a beating but not much fin nipping etc i isolated anyway but all syptoms i mentioned happened after wards

all parameters fine no problems

no signs of flicking or rubbing at all no signs of visible parasites

I lost another of my Malawis about two months ago - though I'd had him for nearly three years and I suspect he was already on his way out. I did the same as this time - isolation tank - but within a day developed the same symptoms and died quite rapidly. :(

Wilder, I think that it might be worth 'pinning' something on 'fin rot and its relationship to Columnaris', as it would help people to consider the possibility and take action quickly as it is probably a very common problem. Though I must say that both my fish went down hill so fast that I doubt anything that I could have done would have saved them!
 
I wish I could write an article on columnaris but not a very good writer.
Columnaris has many disguises and symtoms.
 
Lol.
Might ask colin t if he would write one as he's good.
 
There is another possibility to explain the white film on the body and fins, along with the sudden death. It could be excess mucous caused by the fish being stressed out. If the fish was put into a quarantine tank without an established filter, any ammonia in the water would stress it out and the fish would produce more mucous to try and protect itself. And being a rift lake cichlid the PH was probably high, above 7.6. This would make the ammonia even worse due to ammonia being really toxic in alkaline water. The higher the PH the more lethal the ammonia is. The combination of ammonia, high PH and a fish recovering from being bashed, would have been too much.
Ammonia also burns the fish and allows entry for disease organisms like fungus and bacteria. This would help Columnaris, fungus & septicemia to get into the fish.
 

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