Hot Take On The Aquarium Industry

[anewbie]

Are you ok buddy?
Basically what this guy in the video is saying is that the aquarium industry is setting new people up to fail and become dependent on big box stores. Social Media and YouTube gets an assist in the failure as well.
It's the same things we all say about the big boxes and why more advanced hobbyists avoid them like the plague, or ich.

Man am i glad I'm not new. I'm not sure i could take being dependent on box stores or failing for that matter. Good thing i checked the plants this morning and they were still growing. That was a close one.

 

[gwand]

The mail order only company, Aqua Huna warns beginners on their website not to order fish from them but rather go to their local fish store. Apparently they don’t want to deal with new hobbyists. At least they are honest.

 

[Rusty_Shackleford]

The mail order only company, Aqua Huna warns beginners on their website not to order fish from them but rather go to their local fish store. Apparently they don’t want to deal with new hobbyists. At least they are honest.

They are probably bothered by a million questions or a million complaints from newbs.

 

[Lcc86]

I'm sure not many of you frequent Petsmart and I try not to if I can avoid it, but last fall when I first set up my tank I went there to have my water tested. It was before my API kit arrived. When they test your water they give you a piece of paper with all of your parameters on it and at the bottom is a coupon for any API chemical you may need. Why can't they make a sheet like that explaining the nitrogen cycle and how it works? I've never seen any fish store have anything like that. That information coupled with the test sheet would go a long way in explaining and tracking where a tank is in cycling.
Instead these big box stores are relying on the kid relaying the information by mouth, most likely that information is not being retained by the time the customer walks out of the store.
Look at any fish forum, what's the #1 posted query? Cycling problems, cycling issues, is my tank cycled?

I mean, tbf we all have access to Google, it's pretty easy to find info on the Nitrogen cycle so I don't think we can necessarily blame all of that on big box stores if people can't be bothered to do the slightest bit of research before buying a fish. Not trying to defend them here but we have a whole computer at our fingertips (for better or worse!).

 

[GaryE]

To me, the issue isn't information. If I choose to plant a flower without looking up its needs and it dies, I don't blame the garden centre. That's on me. The same is true for anyone who buys fish. There are basic things we're intelligent enough to learn - if we come from a culture that favours learning. That's where the breakdown happens, to me. A lot of people have a great taste for ignorance, and are scared to learn. Many others have no confidence in their minds, and don't trust their ability to learn. And over it all is the idea that the only valid use of your mind is to make money. We have to get past some ideas before we can think.
Our phones solve the problem of information being available.

My beef with the industry is a fundamental economic problem. Near monopolies have enormous clout, and can pressure producers to drive their prices down. Corners get cut on the fish farms, not because of what happens in southeast Asia, but because of what happens where the corporations sell. We get fragile, sickly poorly raised fish. We get easily controlled Camallanus worms (easy to cure but that costs money), fish with crowding diseases like tuberculosis, and inbred fish. Fish are shipped crammed so tightly in shipping bags for enormous distances, and arrive here half dead. Everything is oriented toward fish as commodities, and not as living beings whose value comes after they're sold. It's all getting them to market. The consumer, or buyer is forgotten in the equation. Sell it, and what happens after is not the industry's problem.

Then, when these poor bedraggled and often doomed fish hit the stores, we're told they die because we can't yet manage the cycle. The blame is shifted to the hobbyist.

The cycle is important, but the health of the fish is a bigger issue for newcomers.

If we come from a culture with poor access to education (in school, I learned far more about mythology than I did about biology), then we can educate ourselves, and come out of it as intermediate aquarists if that's how we choose to apply it. Fish had nothing major to do with how I paid my rent and fed my family, but they have been a treat for my brain and a challenge to learn about. For the first half of my fishkeeping journey so far, the word "cycle" didn't matter. We didn't know about it. Some of us learned, and incorporated that knowledge into making better lives for our hardy, well bred, well raised and humanely shipped fish. Knowledge is there. But it's hard to monetize, so it isn't encouraged.

 

[Rusty_Shackleford]

I mean, tbf we all have access to Google, it's pretty easy to find info on the Nitrogen cycle so I don't think we can necessarily blame all of that on big box stores if people can't be bothered to do the slightest bit of research before buying a fish. Not trying to defend them here but we have a whole computer at our fingertips (for better or worse!).

I totally agree. One of my core beliefs is doing research before any animal purchase. If you're not willing to put on the work to learn about an animals needs, what are the chances you'll put in the work to ensure that animal thrives? It's so much easier now than it was just twenty years ago. Back then all we had were cave paintings. Or books. Lots of books. And TFH magazine. Then chat rooms. Now look at all the information at our fingertips.
So with all that information available why does it seem people aren't willing to do the research and want to be spoon fed information? You see it on every forum or FB group across any animal hobby. Why are forums filled with people asking the same question over and over and over and over? Why can no one use the search function?

To me, the issue isn't information. If I choose to plant a flower without looking up its needs and it dies, I don't blame the garden centre. That's on me. The same is true for anyone who buys fish. There are basic things we're intelligent enough to learn - if we come from a culture that favours learning. That's where the breakdown happens, to me. A lot of people have a great taste for ignorance, and are scared to learn. Many others have no confidence in their minds, and don't trust their ability to learn. And over it all is the idea that the only valid use of your mind is to make money. We have to get past some ideas before we can think.
Our phones solve the problem of information being available.

My beef with the industry is a fundamental economic problem. Near monopolies have enormous clout, and can pressure producers to drive their prices down. Corners get cut on the fish farms, not because of what happens in southeast Asia, but because of what happens where the corporations sell. We get fragile, sickly poorly raised fish. We get easily controlled Camallanus worms (easy to cure but that costs money), fish with crowding diseases like tuberculosis, and inbred fish. Fish are shipped crammed so tightly in shipping bags for enormous distances, and arrive here half dead. Everything is oriented toward fish as commodities, and not as living beings whose value comes after they're sold. It's all getting them to market. The consumer, or buyer is forgotten in the equation. Sell it, and what happens after is not the industry's problem.

Then, when these poor bedraggled and often doomed fish hit the stores, we're told they die because we can't yet manage the cycle. The blame is shifted to the hobbyist.

The cycle is important, but the health of the fish is a bigger issue for newcomers.

If we come from a culture with poor access to education (in school, I learned far more about mythology than I did about biology), then we can educate ourselves, and come out of it as intermediate aquarists if that's how we choose to apply it. Fish had nothing major to do with how I paid my rent and fed my family, but they have been a treat for my brain and a challenge to learn about. For the first half of my fishkeeping journey so far, the word "cycle" didn't matter. We didn't know about it. Some of us learned, and incorporated that knowledge into making better lives for our hardy, well bred, well raised and humanely shipped fish. Knowledge is there. But it's hard to monetize, so it isn't encouraged.

This is why we need to keep the hobby advancing and teaching the next generation of keepers. That's where your best fish come from. Admittedly I don't know a ton about fish diseases. Because I've never had to deal with fish diseases. Ich, sure, been there done thar. Columnaris, never had it. Flakes, nope. I've never had major issues because a vast majority of fishb I've ever kept have come from other hobbyists. To us fish aren't commodities. So I agree that there definitely is a disconnect between the corporate commercial side of the aquarium industry and hobbyists like us.
Gary I remember a time in the early it's here in the U.S. when there was some kind of legislation proposed that was going to reclassify medicines like meth blue into something you needed a prescription to obtain. I remember fish club members signing petitions and calling politicians to make our voice heard. The thought was this would kill the hobby. Because who is going to pay $60 to see a veterinarian, then pay $20 for a prescription of meth blue to treat a $1.99 zebra danio?

 

[gwand]

We have wandered from Rusty’s initial question whether the fish industry, as put forth in the utube, deliberately sets out to make the hobbyists dependent upon their services. Is this a well planned industry design created in smoke-filled offices by greedy corporate executives? We know that many industries create planned obsolescence so products have a shortened lifespan. Time to buy another heater or air pump or filter. It is in the very nature of capitalism that the seller does everything possible, ethically or unethically, to sell their merchandise.

It is another question whether it is the sellers or buyers responsibility to know about the nitrogen cycle and other tricks of the hobby to insure the success of the new hobbyist. I come down on the side that the seller should supply the new hobbyist with sufficient information. I know the buyer should do their homework so the seller does not have to perform this service. But at the end of the day it is the fish which suffers if the buyer is too lazy or too ignorant to do their homework and the seller doesn’t care.

 

[Innesfan]

The mail order only company, Aqua Huna warns beginners on their website not to order fish from them but rather go to their local fish store. Apparently they don’t want to deal with new hobbyists. At least they are honest.

I am stunned to learn of this. I made my first order from Aqua Huna a few months ago--with a happy outcome-- and did not spot this on their site. It's a bold move and I've not seen another commercial vendor take this approach.

 

[gwand]

I am stunned to learn of this. I made my first order from Aqua Huna a few months ago--with a happy outcome-- and did not spot this on their site. It's a bold move and I've not seen another commercial vendor take this approach.

Aqua Huna writes:
We are the largest tropical fish importer and wholesaler in the Northwest. We built this store to service small businesses and experienced hobbyists.

Beginner, please visit your local pet store!

 

[Lcc86]

I totally agree. One of my core beliefs is doing research before any animal purchase. If you're not willing to put on the work to learn about an animals needs, what are the chances you'll put in the work to ensure that animal thrives? It's so much easier now than it was just twenty years ago. Back then all we had were cave paintings. Or books. Lots of books. And TFH magazine. Then chat rooms. Now look at all the information at our fingertips.
So with all that information available why does it seem people aren't willing to do the research and want to be spoon fed information? You see it on every forum or FB group across any animal hobby. Why are forums filled with people asking the same question over and over and over and over? Why can no one use the search function?

This is why we need to keep the hobby advancing and teaching the next generation of keepers. That's where your best fish come from. Admittedly I don't know a ton about fish diseases. Because I've never had to deal with fish diseases. Ich, sure, been there done thar. Columnaris, never had it. Flakes, nope. I've never had major issues because a vast majority of fishb I've ever kept have come from other hobbyists. To us fish aren't commodities. So I agree that there definitely is a disconnect between the corporate commercial side of the aquarium industry and hobbyists like us.
Gary I remember a time in the early it's here in the U.S. when there was some kind of legislation proposed that was going to reclassify medicines like meth blue into something you needed a prescription to obtain. I remember fish club members signing petitions and calling politicians to make our voice heard. The thought was this would kill the hobby. Because who is going to pay $60 to see a veterinarian, then pay $20 for a prescription of meth blue to treat a $1.99 zebra danio?

There's probably two sides, the first is people who legit don't care and will impulse buy any animal that a pet shop will sell them. And then the second side is those who aren't confident given the conflicting information you can get online. I've kept house rabbits most of my life and can give a fair bit of decent advice if I'm asked, but I'll still ask questions on forums if I'm unsure because nobody knows everything.

We have wandered from Rusty’s initial question whether the fish industry, as put forth in the utube, deliberately sets out to make the hobbyists dependent upon their services. Is this a well planned industry design created in smoke-filled offices by greedy corporate executives? We know that many industries create planned obsolescence so products have a shortened lifespan. Time to buy another heater or air pump or filter. It is in the very nature of capitalism that the seller does everything possible, ethically or unethically, to sell their merchandise.

It is another question whether it is the sellers or buyers responsibility to know about the nitrogen cycle and other tricks of the hobby to insure the success of the new hobbyist. I come down on the side that the seller should supply the new hobbyist with sufficient information. I know the buyer should do their homework so the seller does not have to perform this service. But at the end of the day it is the fish which suffers if the buyer is too lazy or too ignorant to do their homework and the seller doesn’t care.

Completely agree with this. I view it like any purchase, I don't necessarily trust the "salesperson" whether it's a car, a phone, whatever else, because at the end of the day their job is to mainly make sales (with exceptions of course). When it involves live animals I view it as my responsibility to do my best. Ironically the Internet makes that much easier but also exposes us to misinformation at the same time.

 

[GaryE]

Last week, I fired up a freshly cycled 1970s Hagen power filter. It was the forerunner of the Fluval Aqua Clear series, and this case, had sat unused in the barn of an aquarist who had died within a year or two of buying it. His gear was packed away, and when his now elderly kids decided to move, they sold off the boxes from their Dad to a local teenager who wants to be a business guy.
I bought a collection of powerheads and this filter from him for what they were worth - not a lot as he didn't know what half the equipment was, and couldn't find it online.
Cute story, but it is relevant. That filter works like a charm. Its media, which will only need partial replacement in about 10 years, is working away again, now colonized by bacteria for the cycle, as it was designed to be. I predict this energy efficient little (marketed at the time for a 40 gallon tank) filter has about 15 years of runtime left.
Hagen/Fluval tweaked the design in the 80s (to the early 2010s), making it easier to cheaply repair or to replace parts. I have some of their filters still running after 25 years, with one or two replaced impeller shafts. Other than their tendency to need a manual restart after a power outage, they were the perfect HOB filter. The tech was set 50 years ago.
But you bought one, that was the end of your interaction with the company. Now, to survive, a company must compete by reducing quality, and selling filter inserts and gimmicks that wear out fast and have to be rebought. You can't have a product that you buy once and that works for twenty years. How are you going to fill your pockets (and the world's landfills) with quality devices that are tried and tested?
Too good is poor marketing, and has to be fixed. Every industry wants dependent customers who pay and pay again.
There were integrated filter units with built in heaters - the heaters crapped out after a couple of years, as heaters do, leaving a big chunk of plastic. It's not new. There are tanks made so only company equipment is supposed to fit. Maketing abounds, and I'm sure some of the people reading here work in it.
If you're clever, after a couple of years in the hobby, you figure out how to work around the company's needs, and focus on your own. It's expensive at the start. You buy dechlorinator for well water without chlorine, ordinary non iodized salt in aquarium boxes, ferts that aren't best for your plants, meds that smell good and do nothing to parasites - it's nowhere near as crooked in the aquarium world as it is with the products that are supposed to keep me looking so young and fresh and beautiful!
Hey, Microsoft wants millions and millions of people to landfill working computers for apps they may not need, because the older operating systems they made aren't profitable enough to be supported. If the aquarium industry could do that, you can bet they would. It's just unhuman nature.

 

[Magnum Man]

"consumables" it's where the capitalist pert of the hobby was born... Ideally the main component is of high quality, enough to earn a good reputation, but the buyer needs to buy a filter cartridge or "consumable" which is where we make our money...

I've never seen that nitrogen thing, if I can't see it with my own eyes, it must not exist, say's the guy using AI on his computer..

 

[anewbie]

I really like sponges they don't have consumables And if the power goes out i can just huff and puff and blow till i'm blue in the face.

 

[Rusty_Shackleford]

Are we holding the aquarium industry to too high an ideal? I mean Chevrolet and Ford make cars but they aren't responsible for teaching people how to drive.

 

[GaryE]

Are we holding the aquarium industry to too high an ideal? I mean Chevrolet and Ford make cars but they aren't responsible for teaching people how to drive.

I think we have to define what the industry is. Is it retail? Manufacturing? Distribution? Dry goods? Livestock?

I know I don't want a Ford Pinto airstone.