Hole In The Head?

[Flubberlump]

Hi. I've noticed some holes appearing in my apisto cacatuoides' head over the last week or so. At first I thought they were the pores on his head but they have since increased in size and are also uneven in size. A bit of a recent background...about a month ago I treated the tank with melafix as my female caca appeared to have dropsy. Sadly she didn't make it. Incidentally, she'd only been in the tank a few weeks, and the day after I added her my male took a shine to her and she laid eggs in one of the caves. She ate them overnight. I wonder whether this may have caused her some stress? New tank and then eggs straight away? I tested the water parameters with a nutrafin kit and all was fine.

About 2 weeks later I noticed all of the fish gasping at the top, other than the bottom dwellers which were gasping at the bottom. Tested the water straight away...ammonia and nitrate. I did a 90% water change and repeated this for the next 3 days, testing the parameters before each change. By this time the ammonia was dropping to 0 within 24 hours and nitrite was halved. I performed 70% changes for the next 2 days, followed by 50% changes for the next 2. By this time ammonia and nitrite had been at 0 for a couple of days, and nitrate was at 10. All fish appeared back to normal. I've been keeping a close eye on the water parameters since then.

Tank size: 120ltr
pH: 7 - this had remained constant at 7.5 - 8 for the last 3 1/2 years (same pH as my tap water.) I have only noticed this drop within the last 2 weeks. I tested the tap water and this has dropped to 7 also, explaining the drop in tank pH.
Ammonia: 0
Nitrite: 0
Nitrate: 10
kH: unknown
gH: unknown
Temp: 23C - this has dropped slightly and I cannot seem to raise it, I'm buying a new heater.

Fish symptoms: holes on the head, varying in size, although they do seem to be symmetrical in location. Also one behind his left eye. Although they look white in the photos, they aren't, they are pits with no colour. His appetite is normal, he wolfs food as usual. He is much quieter than usual. He is usually very active and patrols the tank, also stopping to have a look at what's going and outside and will follow people (and cats!) as they walk past. For the last couple of weeks he has spent most of his time in a cave. He comes out at feeding time and very occasionally during the day. Today I noticed that my rummy noses were nipping at him when he came out and he quickly retreated to his cave. I have never seen this before.

Water changes: usually 50% every 2 weeks. This has been the case for the last 3 years. Since this trouble started though it has been 40 - 50% every week.

Additives: seachem prime with each water change, TNC+ after each water change for live plants. As above a course of melafix about a month ago.

Tank inhabitants: 10 rummynoses, 4 kuhlis, 5 corys, 4 lampeye killis, 1 glass bloodfin tetra (who killed the other glass bloodfins years ago so has remained on his own ever since).

Recent additions: female apisto who died of dropsy after a few weeks (this was before the crash)

Sorry about the lengthy post but there seem to be a lot of variables! the only other change is that I ran out of carbon dioxide for the live plants a couple of months ago so they aren't looking their best, but none have died to pollute the water. I know the tank crash may have contributed to the HITH (if that's what it is) but I don't know for certain what caused that, perhaps the melafix? The holes actually don't look as bad in the photo as they actually are.

Thanks in advance.

 

[Akasha72]

hmm ... okay. So the ammonia and nitrite problems will have cause severe stress to the fish and even though you're on top of it now it sounds like he's still under stress especially given that it sounds like he's being bullied.
Hole in the head is often caused by a bacterial infection and dropsy is usually a sign of internal problems. There could be all kinds of things going on but I can't stop thinking that stress is the cause of a lot of it.
 
If it were me I'd be adding an anti-biotic. We don't normally like to suggest meds unless really necessary but hole in the head (and that is what it sounds like) is nasty and needs treatment. I see you are in the U.K and so I'd recommend Waterlife's Octozin as a quality anti-biotic. Because the female appeared to have something wrong with her guts I'd also start them on a weeks course of food dipped in epsom salts. If there's anything going on internally it'll certainly help to pass it through.
 
If you are not aware of the food dip I'll type up a how to below:
 
Using Epsom Salt for internal problems
 
Take half a litre of water (tap water is fine) and add to it a tablespoon of epsom salt (magnesium sulphate) Mix well until the salt is fully dissolved. Take the fishes food and add it to your net. Dunk (technical term there!) the net containing the food into the salt water solution a few times until the food is coated. Then simply add the food to the tank for the fish to eat. You can then either cover the solution to re-use later or discard and mix up a fresh one later. Repeat the process twice a day for at least a week.
Never add the salt water solution to the tank as it will mess up your tank stats.
 
Epsom salt is available in most pharmacies and is very cheap. I always keep some in now as it can be used to treat all kinds of intestinal problems

 

[Flubberlump]

Thanks Akasha that's brilliant. I agree that stress seems to be the main factor, from several causes!
I was hoping for confirmation that it is hole in the head (so I know what to treat, not because I hoped he had it!!) as that's what I suspected so thanks for that.

I'm a veterinary nurse, so wary about the use of antibiotics. Unfortunately I'm not in touch with a vet who specialises in this field. Also, given that I have no quarantine tank (terrible I know) I worry about antibiotic resistance due to the other fish receiving treatment too. I'll look into it. Do you have any suggestions of any antibacterials that may help to prevent infection? I have melafix but don't know whether that's appropriate?

I've never heard of using Epsom salts, great tip thank you! Is that ok for the other fish to have too? Because the female apisto got ill fairly quickly after introduction to the tank I wonder whether she may already have had a problem, then the added stress gave it chance to take over. I know this may be partly my fault for not having quarantine. I've never had any problems with illness before so I'm gutted that this has happened.

Thanks so much.

 

[Akasha72]

Hi again, what I'm trying to avoid you getting here is something called Hexamita. It's common in cichlids and is generally caused by stress. I can kill quite quickly.
If it takes hold it can lead to pop eye and hole in the head. Whilst the fish are eating you've got a chance of avoiding it. It's difficult to diagnose as it's fairly rare and not much is known about it. I had it in my tank about 18 months ago and I lost both my rams, 2 baby angels and a couple of tetra's.
 
The epsom salt trick helps to push the bacteria through their intestines. It's perfectly safe for all fish provided you just soak their food. The epsom salt penetrates the food, the food is eaten, the epsom salt works as a laxative and cleans out their system. This is why I always keep it in stock. If I see a fish looking bloated or sickly I dip their food in the solution for a week. I use it as a preventative.
 
The meds I recommended are for hole in the head (Waterlife's Octozin) but it can be used to treat Hex too as it's an anti-biotic. So, what ever is happening here you should be able to save the apisto. 
 
I'd never recommend adding anything I didn't think was needed. He's not going to recover from hole in the head without some medicine

 

[Flubberlump]

Hi. Sorry to hear about your fish That's great thanks. I'll get on it. Just fed some frozen food and he wolfed it as usual. He's not showing any symptoms yet other than the holes, so hopefully we can catch it before it progresses. I'll keep you updated!
I've ordered some waterlife octozin. Hope it comes quickly! The chemist is closed until Monday now so will go and get some Epsom salt too. Thanks again.

 

[Akasha72]

not a problem and yes, an update is always great. I hope to read in a week or two that the holes have healed and he's picking up. You'll still need to deal with the fish that are bullying him ... you may have to move someone out in order to bring the bullying to an end though

 

[Flubberlump]

I've ordered some Epsom salt too. Does it matter what food I use? Does it have to be dry stuff or can it be frozen? I suppose dry will be easier to coat in the salt. I'm keeping a close eye on the rummy noses. I've never seen that happen before and haven't seen it since either. I've been at home since I made the original post and check on Alan (the apisto ) regularly. I wondered whether it may be because he's ill.

 

[Akasha72]

it doesn't matter what type of food although when I was using it I used to pop my net over the water and drop my frozen block of bloodworms etc into the net and let it dissolve in the salt water. It just felt like common sense to do that. Obviously you can't feed frozen blocks daily and so dunking some flake is just as good. 
 
The tetra's could be picking on him because they can sense a weakness ... get him well first and then see how it goes. When he's feeling well again he may well fight back and then the tetra's won't know what has hit em!

 

[Flubberlump]

That's great thanks, I'll get going with it as soon as the meds arrive.

I thought the same thing about the tetras. It's always been a very peaceful tank, no sign of real aggression anywhere - since the remaining glass bloodfin chased the others to death a few years ago. He's never bothered with any of the other species though. Hopefully if I can get the apisto better that will resolve. Time will tell.

 

[Flubberlump]

The octozin came today. Should I do a water change before the first dose? I also got the Epsom salt today. The apisto is still eating and doesn't seem to have deteriorated so can't wait to get these meds in now!

 

[Akasha72]

Hi, if memory serves me right the course for Octozin is a week long so if your due a water change before then I'd do it before you add the meds. You can still dip the food regardless.
 
He sounds like he's doing well if he's not deteriated since we last spoke.  

 

[Flubberlump]

Thanks Akasha. The octozin bottle says a 3 day course. I think I'll do a water change first, it just makes me feel better somehow! It's due one anyway.

I hope he is doing ok! Just about to feed the first lot of Epsom salt, got a frozen block defrosting in it at the moment. I'll keep you updated.

 

[Flubberlump]

Just managed to get a slightly better photo while he was eating. Best I could get!

 

[Akasha72]

he does look a bit stressed but if he's eating it's a good sign

 

[Flubberlump]

Today was day 3 of octozin. Alan has been more active today than he has been for weeks! He's much more his usual curious self today rather than hiding in a cave. He's still eating well. Day 4 of Epsom salt today too.

Just need to give it some time now to see if that's done the trick and if the holes start healing up, fingers crossed! Thanks Akasha

Here's a photo from today, I'll try to take more over the next couple of weeks so we can look back and compare.