Hole In Head

[Snick]

Hey people,

I have finally got some discus, 5 in total, but apperently one of them I purchased with hole in head disease... I don't really want to give it back since I feel sorry for the guy, the store didn't really know how to take care of these fish. Anyways, when I bought the fish it also had itch, so I treated it with the appropiate medicine and of course the slight increase in water temperature... When the itch was gone, I still saw two small dots on its forehead, and I though it may still be some last itch parasites clinging on, but I woke up yesterday and they where really terrible... And I read that hole in head goes away with appropriate nutrition (I bought frozens and some discus pellets instead of the flakes they were eating in the store) and rutine water changes (I do 35% water change every 3 days) but the infection has gotten worse. I heard about micronazole but some people say it's useless...
So to end my frantic rant, there is so much controversy over this disease that I do not know what to do and my discus is deteriorating rapidly... WHAT DO I DO!?
Here's a picture of the guy... my good camera is broken so I had to use my cellphone... essentially, imagine a hole about 1 mm in diameter or less with fleshy fluff coming out of it. Its spreading along to the lateral lines, like many say such happens with this disease.

 

[Snick]

I must add, is it contagious? Also, the infected guy isn't eating much so... medicated food and increasing its nutrition may not be an option.

 

[Snick]

Also, if I am to feed him, I would have to change him to another tank (hospital tank) to make sure he gets his Vitamin C enriched food.

 

[DiscusKeeper403]

Looks like a bad case of HITH. No it is not contagious.


I would probably just set him off in a quarantine tank to make sure he is getting a fair share of food. What exactly are you feeding him? Lots of feedings (3-4 times a day) some Metro, and large water changes done daily should clear it up.

Good luck and keep us posted.


DL

 

[Tolak]

Really clean water is a must. It might be easier to move him to a smaller tank which would make daily 50% water changes a bit easier.

Carbon has been indirectly linked to HITH, if you are running carbon remove it.

An infant's liquid multi vitamin works great for a vitamin enhanced feed. I feed my oscar vitamin enriched pellets once weekly, NW cichlids, and especially oscars it seems are prone to this.

I put several pellets in a shotglass, drip on some of the liquid vitamins, and let it soak in for 15 minutes. The vitamins are also something that gets added to home made beefheart mix, I get together a couple times yearly with other club members to make a batch.

So, remove carbon, 50% water changes daily, vitamin enriched food. Internal protizoans are another thing that have been indirectly linked to HITH, if you can get metronidazole to treat the fish it won't hurt.

Internal protizoans & HITH are a sort of chicken or egg deal, as internal protizoans are often part of the normal digestive flora of many fish. When fish get ill their natural immunity can't keep the level of these protizoans to a normal manageable level.

 

[rabbut]

HITH is usualy caursed by one or more of three things;

Poor water quality
Poor diet
Debatably, carbon in the filter (Though I haven't experienced this caurse myself)

Can you give us a run down of Ammonia, NitrIte, NitrAte, pH, Temperature, GH and KH? What are you feeding (Brand of pellet and the types of frozen you have), how often and what filter medias do you have in the tank?

HITH can in all cases I've come across, be cured by remadying the caurse

All the best
Rabbut

 

[foley69]

something i have found that cures HITH is waterlife octozin quaranteen the fish and add this to the tank making sure carbon is removed this has woked many times with my friends discus in his LFS he swears by the stuff i have used this to also cure serious outbreaks of whitespot

 

[rabbut]

Appart from the fact that any mediaction to treat HITH in the UK that is actaully shown to work requires a perscription from a vet Octozin in the UK either isn't actually helping your mates fish in the LFS (more likely good husbandary is pulling them through), or Octozin should not be on his shelves, due to the new EU wide legislation, banning Flubendazole, Paraquiezole, Flubendazole and stronger Copper Sulphate based medications. There are two exceptions to the Flubendazole listing, but they are weak. There are no exceptiond to Metro and Para to my knowlage... If the latter, he is actually committing an offence by selling it

All the best
Rabbut

EDIT to add, Meto and Para are the ones you need for HITH

 

[foley69]

well the majority of LFS in england must be commiting an offence then whats with the smart comment going into legislation

 

[rabbut]

It's just a point. If your mate is committing an offence, it may be an idea to advise him as such to avoid him getting done

Octozin has vanished from works order sheets, though I think that is down to our suppliers, rather than it being due to it's ingrediants. I can't remember what it's based on now TBH, but I remember quite a few people grumbling about it a while back, for not having the right active ingrediants in

The point I was trying to make was that it was more likely to be good husbandary on your mates part that was fixing the HITH, not the med

All the best
Rabbut

 

[Snick]

OK, so this is what I'm going to do -
1) I'm getting it into another small 30 gallon tank, alone with some hiding places and reduced lighting. Heater of course, no carbon filtration (btw I have no carbon filtration on my main tank, some of you asked)
2) I will do 50% water changes daily.
3) Feed him vitamin-soaked food. Vitamin C will be the one I concentrate the most on.
4) If he doesn't get better, I will start treating with Meto, as the drugs that are recommended are also banned in Mexico (to my surprise.)

Just one quick question - wouldn't the high volume in water changes stress out the discus? I will try to make the water temperature as equal as possible but the pH will undoubtedly be slightly elevated (about .5 pH) from the main tank due to the fact that the main tank has a big driftwood in it)

 

[rabbut]

I would avoind QTing Discus from a group wherever possible. Re-introdictions are always heated and often not possible with just one fish being added...

Before you start QT'ing, could you post the requested details on the main tank, re;

Ammonia
NitrIte
NitrAte
pH
Temperature
GH
KH
Regularities of feeding
And finally brands/type of feed

If there is no Carbon present, it's diet, waterquality or damage via LFS, and the first two need remadying or the others will start with the same issue sooner or later

All the best
Rabbut

 

[Snick]

ok here are my stats -
ammonia: 0 ppm
temperature: 30 Celsius
pH: 6.5
I have medium soft water, about 4 dH... but my reader is kinda off, but I assume its pretty good since my pH is at a good level and I have quite a lot of driftwood.

I do think that taking this guy out into another tank is imporant... he is always hidden and has trouble getting food.He doesn't look well at all. I think he has little time left... He's lying on his side as we speak.

 

[Snick]

i still want to give it a try though, he looks healthy and sometimes comes out and swims..
Forgot to tell you guys, they get fed twice, in the morning and at night, although since he became sick I'm trying to feed them in the afternoon as well. I have been feeding them tetra flakes, but as of yesterday also frozen bloodworms and specialized tetra discus pellets.

 

[Snick]

he's dead. im giving the rest a cocktail of multivitamin soaked food to recuperate them from their terrible diet at the LFS.