High Phosphates?

flippajh · Jan 20, 2010

Ok, bought two Oto's to go in with my Betta at the weekend, sadly one was dead by the time i'd finished acclimatising them. Couldn't find the receipt, so had to buy another one on Monday, got home from work to find him dead on the bottom of the tank, so hooked him out, put him in a glass to take back to the shop today (with receipt this time). Mum took fish and a jar with tank water in it to have the fish replaced, which they have done, but on testing the water said I have very high Phosphates. My question is what are phosphates, how do you measure them (is this the Ph test?)and are they dangerous to the rest of the fish?

Thanks

Philippa

Truck · Jan 20, 2010

How big is the tank, if it's under 30 gallons then there is no chance of you being able to keep ottos successfully, they need lots of natural algae, the phosphate wont affect them. If they're not fat when you buy them, the chances of them lasting aren't high, what are your ammonia, nitrite and nitrate readings? Also the PH is the relative acidity or alkalinity of the water, that is what the PH kit is for.

aaronnorth · Jan 20, 2010

truckasauras123 said:
How big is the tank, if it's under 30 gallons then there is no chance of you being able to keep ottos successfully, they need lots of natural algae, the phosphate wont affect them. If they're not fat when you buy them, the chances of them lasting aren't high, what are your ammonia, nitrite and nitrate readings? Also the PH is the relative acidity or alkalinity of the water, that is what the PH kit is for.

30gallons?

PO4 doesnt affect fish. Ottos are just hard to acclimatise, like Jack says try to get the fattest species so they have a higher chance of survival.

Truck · Jan 20, 2010

I say 30 gallons when first keeping them because the chances of them surviving are higher, due to the larger surface area for algae to grow on, which will give the ottos a better chance of surviving, once you have gained experience then a smaller tank would be more viable.

flippajh · Jan 20, 2010

Flippin eck, 30 gallons, didn't realise that - they're only in a 35 litre tank,with a blind siamese fighter, I thought they'd be ok as they are so small. I could put them in my heavily planted 50 gallon, but I'd never get them out of there to go in the smaller tank. I have had the small tank set up for about 6 months now, there seems to be a nice coating on the back wall, and heater of algae, but I do scrape the front and sides. I was going to supplement their diet with algae wafers.

I just wasn't sure, I haven't come across Phosphates so far, I have the Ph test kit for the water hardness, but thought perhaps it measured something I wasn't aware of.

The readings I took last night were Ammonia 0.0, Nitrite 0.0, Nitrate between 30 and 40 (good red colour), don't really test for Ph any more, only if I've done a bigger than normal water change in case the local water company have been up to anything.

The good thing is the fish mum picked up for me is pretty big, much bigger than the one's that didn't make it. But I suppose I should take them back if the tank isn't going to be big enough for them.

Shame they seem like really nice fish.

Thanks

Truck · Jan 20, 2010

Just make sure there is enough algae at all times, and acclimatize over an hour or so.

flippajh · Jan 20, 2010

I'll stop cleaning algae off stuff, there are plenty of plants in the tank and they are zipping up and down the plants, one has been in the tank since Sunday and is fine, the other was acclimatised slowly this lunch time, but is much bigger than the other, if it looks like I'm not getting enough algae in the small tank, I'll transfer them to the big one and just accept I won't see them again!

Is it the green or brown algae they prefer, or is it all types, I can see green on the top of the heater, but the stuff on the glass looks a bit more of a brown colour?

Inchworm · Jan 20, 2010

Hi flippajh

The problem with otos is that it's not always possible to get healthy ones. If you have already lost two from the same batch at the lfs, the chances are slim to none that any others you get will survive. This is because if they have been without food for a length of time during the shipping and distribution process, they will lose their ability to digest it properly. There is nothing you can do to help this.

If they are healthy to begin with, you can feed them on zucchini, spinach, kale, cucumber, etc. While they like brown algae, they can do well enough without it.

As far as the phosphates go, it's not a test that is routinely done at the lfs. I would be surprised if you do have a problem with it at all. I suggest you take a water sample to a different lfs and ask them to test for it. If they say "no," avoid patronizing the store you bought the otos from in the future. If they say "yes" ask if there is naturally high nitrates in the local water system before you take any measures to try to reduce it.

flippajh · Jan 20, 2010

Thanks Inchworm

Fingers crossed these ones will be ok, the one that I got on Sunday that is still with me, seems to be ok, is very active and having a good feed on the plants and glass, however he is almost half the size of the replacement I got today. He's quite a chubby one, so am hoping they will be ok, will try them with cucumber and greens and just keep an eye on them, but if they don't make it over the next few days I won't be replacing them.

I was suprised about the Phosphates, as I've never heard of them being tested before, and certainly have never personally tested for them, just can't think why the lfs would have been testing for it. Perhaps to find a way not to replace a fish they've supplied that has died. Was worried in case I'd missed something to test for, have all the other chemicals, but not one for that!

Fingers crossed all will be well now.

Thanks all for the help.

aaronnorth · Jan 21, 2010

flippajh said:
Thanks Inchworm

Fingers crossed these ones will be ok, the one that I got on Sunday that is still with me, seems to be ok, is very active and having a good feed on the plants and glass, however he is almost half the size of the replacement I got today. He's quite a chubby one, so am hoping they will be ok, will try them with cucumber and greens and just keep an eye on them, but if they don't make it over the next few days I won't be replacing them.

I was suprised about the Phosphates, as I've never heard of them being tested before, and certainly have never personally tested for them, just can't think why the lfs would have been testing for it. Perhaps to find a way not to replace a fish they've supplied that has died. Was worried in case I'd missed something to test for, have all the other chemicals, but not one for that!

Fingers crossed all will be well now.

Thanks all for the help.

Some shops will try anything, the main ones to take note of are ammonia, nitrite (which should be 0) and nitrate (which shouldnt be higher/ lower than the shops by approx 20ppm) as it may shock them.
Also, the hardness (KH) of the water can affect fish,

but this is why we acclimatise them, to limit this shock.

Hooch0959 · Jan 22, 2010

I had a phosphate testing chemical come with my testing kit.

To paraphrase it says it can promote unsightly algae growth and originates from fish feces, excess food and decay of organic matter such as plants, fish and other organisms.