High Nitrate And Nitrite Levels And One Dead Angel Fish :(

[Marty.h]

As said in previous posts the tank 180 Litre and filter is new I added water and plants, wood ect from old tank and the fish where swapped into new tank I was unable to use any old media from old filter as that went with old tank.

The readings the following day ( 2 days ago ) was

Ph 7.5 - 8.0
Ammonia 0.0
Nitrate 20.00
Nitrite 0.0 - 0.1
Temp 26.7

Tonight there has been a massive spike in Nitrate and Nitrite readings tonight are

PH 8.0
Ammonia 0.0
Nitrate 70.00
Nitrile 3.3
Temp 26.7

I only changed around 40 litres of water this morning. Tap water tested and levils are a lot lower then tank is producing

whats caused the massive spike. The angle fish came with the tank and had cloudy eyes that had cleard up but tonight he went to bottom of tank rolled over and that was it


can any one offer any advice as to where ive gone wrong.

Cheers
Marty

 

[Ninjouzata]

The issue is that you did not use the old filter media. This contains most of your bacteria that convert ammonia -> nitrite -> nitrates.
You are now having to cycle the tank over again (did you use substrate from the old tank?).
 
You can read about cycling HERE, though since the tank has fish you cannot do that method so you'll likely want to read THIS and THIS as well.
 
What is the stocking for the tank and how often are you changing the water? Sorry for your loss
 
Do you know anyone with a tank that can spare some of their filter media?

 

[Marty.h]

Hi it has around 20 little fish in there. I can ask a friend if they have some media I can have and how much would i need and where would that be best suited in the filter what section its a fluval 406. I have been changing water daily

 

[Ninjouzata]

Hi it has around 20 little fish in there. I can ask a friend if they have some media I can have and how much would i need and where would that be best suited in the filter what section its a fluval 406. I have been changing water daily

What fish are they? I think in your first thread you mentioned you don't know what all they are. If you can get a picture of each fish you're unsure of and post it someone should be able to ID them for you.
 
You want no more than 1/3 of their media or their tank could go into a mini-cycle. I'm sorry I'm not familiar with your filter so not sure what section to put it in but as long as it's in your filter it should be good I think.
 
*Edit* You can cut the filter media if need be to make it fit.
Did you throw away the media from your other tank or is it still about? If so it would be good to cut that up and put in this new filter as well

 

[Marty.h]

Hi thanks for the reply.

I went and got 50 litres of RO water today so have replaced 50 litres in the tank. Hopefully I have done the right thing.

My brother inlaw looked at fish and been advised I have several swordtails, 3 platys, noen, plecs, 1 red finned shark, corys, blue gourami I think thats it.

 

[Byron]

Is there a reason you are using RO water?
 
As long as you are testing nitrite above zero, do major water changes of 50-70% of the tank volume every day.  It is also helpful during this period to use a conditioner that deals with nitrite and nitrate, such as Prime.
 
Nitrite above 0.5 ppm causes internal damage that is not reversible, hence the daily water changes to keep it down.  Have you tested the tap water for ammonia, nitrite and nitrate?  It is worth knowing that this is not an additional source.
 
Rather than use filter media from someone else's tank which can carry disease and various fish pathogens to your tank, I would use a good bacterial supplement.  Just my view.
 
Byron.

 

[Marty.h]

Hi Thanks for the replys I have checked the tap water and the levils are a lot lower then the tank was producing.
I tested the water again last night and the levils presently are

Ammonia 0.0
Nitrate 10.0
Nitrite 0.8
PH 8

so they have come down some what

 

[Marty.h]

Forgot to add to previous post I tried to edit but pushed report by mistake

I have been using Fluval biological enhancer and interpet bio active tapsafe as the aditives

 

[Byron]

What are the levels for tap water alone for ammonia, nitrite and nitrate?  From your saying they are "lower" I am assuming one or more is present in the tap water?

 

[TwoTankAmin]

Just an fyi, the Interpret product contains aloe vera. i will never allow this substance in any of my tanks. I would suggest you use a water conditioner that does not contains this. Here is a qoate from research review on this subject: A review of polymer-based water conditioners for reduction of handling-related injury
 

 
Some additives contain aloe extract from leaves of the Aloe vera plant. Manufacturers of these products claim that the Aloe vera extract promotes healing of damaged tissue. One potential drawback to water additives that contain Aloe vera extract or CMC is the addition of organic waste load that can reduce the water quality and oxygen levels in a closed system. This may not be an issue, depending on the density of fish, length of time fish are held, and oxygen content of the water. However, the effects of these substances on gill tissue are unclear. Taiwo et al. (2005) tested the survival and behavior of tilapia (Oreochromis niloticus) exposed to different concentrations of aqueous extract of A. vera for up to 96 h. One hundred percent of tilapia exposed to 50 ppm A. vera died within the duration of the experiment. Fish used in this experiment exhibited severe depigmentation and destruction of organs (including gills). The evidence of the toxic effects of A. vera on fish solidifies the need to empirically test water  conditioners, and their chemical components, for potential negative effects on fish.

from http/jsats.pnnl.gov/Publications/Peer/2011/Harnish%20et%20al%202011_Water%20Conditioners.pdf
 
I can not state that aloe vera is bad in a tank at any concentration as I cannot find followups to the above. But I prefer to be safe rather than sorry. Clearly a number of companies use aloe vera and fish are not dropping dead left and right. But that doesn't mean it is 100% safe in lower doses. It only means we do not know what they might be. That study reviewed the information available for several different types of these products not just aloe vera.
 
I could not find out what is actually in the bottle of Fluval stuff. But if it does not say it contains live bacteria, it isnt helping with cycling in terms of adding needed bacteria. And what really discturbs me about this product, and which means I cannot recommend it, is this statement on their site:

 
Weekly dosage for regular maintenance activities and to maintain a strong beneficial biological colony: 5 mL per 37.8 L (10 US Gal)

from http/www.fluvalaquatics.com/ca/product/A8346-biological-enhancer/
 
Cycling is pretty simple- you spend a few weeks encouraging nitrifying bacteria to colonize. Once they are there they will work continuously doing their job as long as we do nothing to kill them. This means that once you are fully cycled you will normally stay fully cycled. There is no need to add more bacteria or to increase the amount you already have. The bacteria die and reproduce daily and the colony strength never changes. So why would you need to keep adding this product more than one time or maybe twice at the start? I suggest you save your money in the future.
 
I have plenty of cyled tanks that have been that way for many years. They have not and do not need any more bacteria added. Just to give you an idea about this, here are the directions for fishless cycling with good bottled bacteria by the Ph.D. scientist who discoverd what bacteria are in tanks and who now packages and sells them. Note how fast they work and how only 1 addition is needed;

 
The best and easiest way to fishless cycle is to combine adding the ammonium chloride with our Live Nitrifying bacteria. When used in combination, these will cycle the tank in less than one week. Again, do not add too much ammonia. We make it easy by providing a bottle of reagent grade ammonium chloride that is at a concentration such that adding 1 drop of solution to 1 gallon of aquarium water will result in an ammonia-nitrogen concentration of 2 mg/L (ppm).
 
The procedure is to add the ammonium chloride solution, shake the bottle of nitrifying bacteria well and add it to the aquarium. Measure ammonia and nitrite the next day and record. Add ½ dose and wait 24 hours and measure again. By day 5 to 7, you should be able to add 1 drop per gallon and the next day, ammonia and nitrite will be 0.

from http/www.drtimsaquatics.com/resources/how-to-start
 
One thought- both dead bacteria and organics like aloe vera are broken down and might be what is producing some level of ammonia in your tank along with the rotting plant. I would suggest if you want to do a fishless cycle on your tank that you reduce to ammonia dose from 3 to 2 ppm. You can pretty much follow the cycling directions and just subsitute 2 ppm for 3 ppm and the snack dose should be 1/3 of whatever it takes to produce the 2 ppm according to the ammonia calculator.

 

[Marty.h]

Thanks for taking the time to reply.

I checked the tap water again and strangely it now reads

Ammonia 0.0
Nitrate 5
Nitrite 0.0

Both the Nitrate and Nitrite where a lot higher when tested. It turns out the water board had been doing some work on the water main at the same time as the massive spike i had is this coincidence or the reason for the big spike as I had changed water ?

Tank reading tonight is as follows

PH 8
Ammonia 0
Nitrate 5
Nitrite 0.1

The levils have come right down and ive not changed any water since yesturday morning.

with regards to the fluval biological enhancer it says on back " features a huge biomass which has been cultured in state of the artbsciece facility"

I will take the advice you have given me and look into the product you have mentioned but hopefully the tank is on its way to being ok.


Cheers
Marty

 

[Marty.h]

Tonights results

I have now dropped some water out

 

[Marty.h]

Just a little update I decided to add more biological media to the filter added some bio home ultra mini and it appears to of done the job here is tonights log and the graph showing levils over a time period.

everything seems to be going in the right direction.

My 700 litre marine setup being ordered Thursday ill update in a new thread as that starts to come together.

Cheers
Marty

 

[sparrow]

Cycle or stabiliser should help this issue by lowering these levels. Its caused by not enough bacteria in the tank.