hi all, thught i would join as i need some advice. i have kept godfish in a tank for years and had no problems. so last summer i thought it would be nice to start a tropical tank. its something ive always wanted to do. so i thought long and hard and read a few good books, spoke to a friend who has tropical fish. and browsed the hinternet. i then started to save to go for it. well to cut a long story short, i finally bought a tank starter kit,(a combined birthday and xmas present from friends and family) which came with the tank an elite pump and heater. i set the tank up and followed the instructions adding the biological starter and ran the tank for a mth. after that i got the water tested and it was apparently perfect, so i purchased my first 2 fish. 2 lovely little bronze corydoras. they did ok for the first 2 weeks then i got 2 pepper doras. my intention was to have them for a bit them get some tetras. i wasnt intending to be too adventurous as i am a beginner and i dont have a lot to spend on buying lots of fish. i already have 4 dogs, 3 cats, 1 guinea pig and the 4 goldies, and it is just little old me here. anyway the problems began this week. ive had the bronze for a month and the peppers for 2 weeks. on mon i noticed the little pepper didnt seem well, he/she was hanging about under the rocks and wouldnt feed. it was very hard to look at properly as he just wanted to hide. anyway tues morn i got a prper look and i noticed there was damage to the tail, my first thought was oh no fin rot. i checked the others and at that point they looked fine. i must admit stupid idiot that i am i didnt rush out to get treatment as i wasnt sure and i just didnt have time (i know, i know i am a bad fish mum and i was asking for what i got). tues night the little pepper was floating upside down. within 2 days the bronzes had both died as well. they definatly im sure had fin rot and one also had fungus that cotton wool type one. i feel terrible about it as they seemed to be doing so well till this week. the larger pepper is still here and he is showing no signs, he seems fine but im worried it might succumb too. i did a water change on wednesday and added the water conditioner. i now dont know what to do. do i go out and get some treatment anyway and if so what. do i leave pepper on his own for a couple of weeks before i start again. i know i must definatly quarentine this time, yes i know i should have done that with the peppers but i dont have a spare tank, the little one i had got damaged so had to be thrown away. it is on my list of kit but i can only buy a bit at a time. and i guess i would need a spare heater and pump as well. im begining to think maybe i should have stuck with the goldies now but i really would love to have a nice tropical tank. it sits at the end of my bed and as i have to lay down a lot cause of my disability it gives me something to watch and enjoy. tv is so boring. i really want to get this right. the fish deserve it first and foremost . so any advice for me please. thanks so much tracey
Hi New To The Forum And To Tropical Fish
- Thread starter peggysmum
- Start date
Hiya Tracey,
I assume you're in the UK ? (ditto if so)
Anyways ....
If you setup a new tank and do nothing eg: not adding nothing as-in ammonia or fish the tank won't cycle as such
Cycling is easy to get to grips with, i'll try and be plain as i can
With water added and fish added, the fish create ammonia in their mess and nice little bugs develop and start munching on this ammonia mess
As these nice bugs munch away on the ammonia they create waste called Nitrite, both ammonia and nitrite are really bad for fish etc
Now as a rule of thumb around 7-10 days after the ammonia starts another batch of nice bugs come on the scene that munch on the nitrite and in turn create nitrate
Nitrate is harmless as such unless it's in a high part per million etc etc
Now with fish in from a new setup you really have to test the water daily for ammonia and nitrite and do water changes to lower the ammonia/nitrites until both nice types of bugs have developed enough to munch on all the ammonia and nitrite, the same goes for a fish-less-cycle (generally you add a pure 9.5% solution of ammonia to start the cycle and as it drops you add more ammonia until yet again both kinds of bugs are munching on the ammonia/nitrite)
The end game aim is to have zero ammonia showing in a test and zero nitrite (sometimes you get the smallest nitrite showing for a while, if the filter media area isn't quite large enough this can happen)
Now the drawback though a small one is this ........
The ammonia is gone the nitrite is gone but you have nitrate, that's the less harmful end product of the two nice sets of bugs you try to create, now generally you take some water out and then add some de-chlorinated water back in, this reduces/keeps in check the amount of nitrate
To really help you can have some fash growing plants, these use nitrate as a fertilizer, not saying they use anywhere near all the nitrate but they sure do absorb a fair bit of nitrate
(especially when pruned back like a shrub)
This in turn helps to reduce the nitrate further
So really ignore what info comes with the tank etc if it's the usual, add this liquid add fish and change filter media monthly etc
Do a fishless cycle or if you can't and have to do a fish-in cycle be prepared for at least one maybe more daily high % water change/s for at least a month or just over
Back to nitrites etc etc .... day 1 ammonia starts being made, by day 7-10 these get under control, around 21 days to 28/35 the nitrites get under control, then it's a case of removing excess nitrates
Hope this is easier for you to understand
For me, you followed the info with tank etc, alas without water changes and liquid test kits most fish have little chance of living let alone being healthy in the long run
Read the stickies about fishless fish-in cycles after reading this, hopefully it will make sense to you after reading this
But with fish-in you have to commit to using dechlorinator and water changes gallore
Tony
I assume you're in the UK ? (ditto if so)
Anyways ....
If you setup a new tank and do nothing eg: not adding nothing as-in ammonia or fish the tank won't cycle as such
Cycling is easy to get to grips with, i'll try and be plain as i can
With water added and fish added, the fish create ammonia in their mess and nice little bugs develop and start munching on this ammonia mess
As these nice bugs munch away on the ammonia they create waste called Nitrite, both ammonia and nitrite are really bad for fish etc
Now as a rule of thumb around 7-10 days after the ammonia starts another batch of nice bugs come on the scene that munch on the nitrite and in turn create nitrate
Nitrate is harmless as such unless it's in a high part per million etc etc
Now with fish in from a new setup you really have to test the water daily for ammonia and nitrite and do water changes to lower the ammonia/nitrites until both nice types of bugs have developed enough to munch on all the ammonia and nitrite, the same goes for a fish-less-cycle (generally you add a pure 9.5% solution of ammonia to start the cycle and as it drops you add more ammonia until yet again both kinds of bugs are munching on the ammonia/nitrite)
The end game aim is to have zero ammonia showing in a test and zero nitrite (sometimes you get the smallest nitrite showing for a while, if the filter media area isn't quite large enough this can happen)
Now the drawback though a small one is this ........
The ammonia is gone the nitrite is gone but you have nitrate, that's the less harmful end product of the two nice sets of bugs you try to create, now generally you take some water out and then add some de-chlorinated water back in, this reduces/keeps in check the amount of nitrate
To really help you can have some fash growing plants, these use nitrate as a fertilizer, not saying they use anywhere near all the nitrate but they sure do absorb a fair bit of nitrate
(especially when pruned back like a shrub)This in turn helps to reduce the nitrate further
So really ignore what info comes with the tank etc if it's the usual, add this liquid add fish and change filter media monthly etc
Do a fishless cycle or if you can't and have to do a fish-in cycle be prepared for at least one maybe more daily high % water change/s for at least a month or just over
Back to nitrites etc etc .... day 1 ammonia starts being made, by day 7-10 these get under control, around 21 days to 28/35 the nitrites get under control, then it's a case of removing excess nitrates
Hope this is easier for you to understand
For me, you followed the info with tank etc, alas without water changes and liquid test kits most fish have little chance of living let alone being healthy in the long run
Read the stickies about fishless fish-in cycles after reading this, hopefully it will make sense to you after reading this
But with fish-in you have to commit to using dechlorinator and water changes gallore
Tony
i have read all about what you said before i started,the infomation was from forums like this as well as good books, i didnt follow what i info i got with the tank, i cycled the tank for a month before getting any fish, adding the starter stuff you get. my water was tested and was fine., my problem now is do i treat the one fish i have left which appears at the moment to be fine with something and if so what. and when should i start again with more fish. i do understand the basics more or less of the cycling its the current sitaution im confused about.
Curiosity101
Is now at University! :D
Peggysmum, you seem to be misunderstanding. Not your fault, but you're not understanding the theory of cycling.
Adding bacteria will not cycle the tank. Apart from anything else it's VERY rare that the bottles contain the correct bacteria, and even rarer that there are any alive in it.
Not only that but the bacteria need ammonia as a food source to grow. In the month you were 'cycling' there was no ammonia in the water for them to feed on and grow. So of course your water was perfect...cause there had never been any ammonia in it in the first place.
To put it simply, your fish have been poisoned, the symptoms you saw aren't due to a nasty infection/virus/any other nasty in the tank that you need to treat for.
What you need right now is to do two 80% water changes and to go out and get yourself a liquid water testing kit. If you can't afford to get a full one (I would recommend the API Master test kit @ £18 on ebay), then the most important ones you need are ammonia and nitrite for now.
See our --> Beginners resource centre
And you really need to read the 'what is cycling' link to get a proper grasp of what cycling is. I'm not having a go in anyway, clearly you've had bad advice on other forums. And books are very much hit n miss (n they miss more than they hit tbh).
Fish keeping is hobby that evolves with the times. The more we learn through practice and science the more we develop better and better techniques aswell as a larger understanding.
Books don't evolve in the same way so get outdated VERY quickly.
Please PM or ask any questions if anything I said is unclear.
To sum up:
Fish is currently swimming in high waste.
Need to do 2 large (at least 50% and 80% would be better) water changes.
Get test kit cause tank wont be cycled yet and you need to monitor water conditions
Don't add anymore fish yet.
Adding bacteria will not cycle the tank. Apart from anything else it's VERY rare that the bottles contain the correct bacteria, and even rarer that there are any alive in it.
Not only that but the bacteria need ammonia as a food source to grow. In the month you were 'cycling' there was no ammonia in the water for them to feed on and grow. So of course your water was perfect...cause there had never been any ammonia in it in the first place.
To put it simply, your fish have been poisoned, the symptoms you saw aren't due to a nasty infection/virus/any other nasty in the tank that you need to treat for.
What you need right now is to do two 80% water changes and to go out and get yourself a liquid water testing kit. If you can't afford to get a full one (I would recommend the API Master test kit @ £18 on ebay), then the most important ones you need are ammonia and nitrite for now.
See our --> Beginners resource centre
And you really need to read the 'what is cycling' link to get a proper grasp of what cycling is. I'm not having a go in anyway, clearly you've had bad advice on other forums. And books are very much hit n miss (n they miss more than they hit tbh).
Fish keeping is hobby that evolves with the times. The more we learn through practice and science the more we develop better and better techniques aswell as a larger understanding.
Books don't evolve in the same way so get outdated VERY quickly.
Please PM or ask any questions if anything I said is unclear.
To sum up:
Fish is currently swimming in high waste.
Need to do 2 large (at least 50% and 80% would be better) water changes.
Get test kit cause tank wont be cycled yet and you need to monitor water conditions
Don't add anymore fish yet.
oh dear what have i done, i thought i was doing it all right. poor fish. so there is no gaurentee even with the water changes poor big pepper will survive.so is there bacteria in there now or have i got to start again. you have all confused me now and i wish id stuck with the gldfish. they have never given me any trouble. i will read through properly your links. and hope big pepper will survive despite my best attempts to killl him.
Curiosity101
Is now at University! :D
Don't beat yourself up. Accidents happen, and you really do get points for trying. 
By my reckoning your tank has been up and running with an ammonia source for a month now. So you should hopefully have some ammonia processing bacteria by now at least.
Problem is that there are 2 types of ammonia processing bacteria, some that process as really high levels and some that process and low levels.
The ones in a fully cycled tank are the low level ones, but in a tank which is accidently being fish-in cycled and so has REALLY high ammonia the high level ones tend to grow. This is ok but it delays the time it takes for the cycle to properly start with the correct ammonia bacs.
I'd keep on with your little peppered for now. Do the water changes I suggested and get a test kit ordered ASAP. Don't get the test strips though, definitely get liquid.
Don't add anymore fish for now. You can finish your cycle with the pepper and then very slowly build your stock up from there. You'll have to build up quite slowly (and test the water regularly after each new addition so you know to do water changes if ammonia/nitrite rises at all)
Also one quick note about the 'easy' goldfish. All it is is that goldfish tend to be more tolerant of ammonia and nitrite poisoning. They will have gone through exactly what the corys have gone through, it's just that they survived.
Just out of interest what type do you have? And what size tank are they in?
By my reckoning your tank has been up and running with an ammonia source for a month now. So you should hopefully have some ammonia processing bacteria by now at least.
Problem is that there are 2 types of ammonia processing bacteria, some that process as really high levels and some that process and low levels.
The ones in a fully cycled tank are the low level ones, but in a tank which is accidently being fish-in cycled and so has REALLY high ammonia the high level ones tend to grow. This is ok but it delays the time it takes for the cycle to properly start with the correct ammonia bacs.
I'd keep on with your little peppered for now. Do the water changes I suggested and get a test kit ordered ASAP. Don't get the test strips though, definitely get liquid.
Don't add anymore fish for now. You can finish your cycle with the pepper and then very slowly build your stock up from there. You'll have to build up quite slowly (and test the water regularly after each new addition so you know to do water changes if ammonia/nitrite rises at all)
Also one quick note about the 'easy' goldfish. All it is is that goldfish tend to be more tolerant of ammonia and nitrite poisoning. They will have gone through exactly what the corys have gone through, it's just that they survived.
Just out of interest what type do you have? And what size tank are they in?
Twinklecaz
Fish Gatherer
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Tracey, don't feel bad. I knew nothing about all this until I joined this forum too. I kept tropical fish for a while when I was a kid. They never lived very long and now I know why But you just learn from your mistakes and move on.
I'm currently setting up my new tank and hoping (money allowing) to get it set up and start my cycle within the next couple of weeks. When you say you have an Elite pump.....is the tank you got by any chance the Elite 60L tank that has a silver hood and Stingray 15 filter?
I'm currently setting up my new tank and hoping (money allowing) to get it set up and start my cycle within the next couple of weeks. When you say you have an Elite pump.....is the tank you got by any chance the Elite 60L tank that has a silver hood and Stingray 15 filter?
yes i think it is that one. i know it is not very big but i only want a few fish, if i ever get that far.
the goldfish tank is 24" long by 10" deep and 18" high, and i have 4 common type goldfish.
mr pepper is still ok today and doing a water change again. and will sit and carefully read through all the info on here. had to go and do an assesment on a gsd today so have been busy, but am now going to start. thanks all tracey
the goldfish tank is 24" long by 10" deep and 18" high, and i have 4 common type goldfish.
mr pepper is still ok today and doing a water change again. and will sit and carefully read through all the info on here. had to go and do an assesment on a gsd today so have been busy, but am now going to start. thanks all tracey
Twinklecaz
Fish Gatherer
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Lol yeah I think you've got the same tank as me!
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