Hi New To Forum And Fairly New To Tropical Fish Keeping

[Newbie185]

Firstly we were given a small 30 ltr tank which with no knowledge we filled with water left running for a month then put some plants in. To cut a long story short we #did not test the water at all #put fish in and needless to say lost the stock. I have a feeling we overstocked the tank but have three very hardy tetras still surviving.
 
Just purchased a 150 ltr tank and its now been running for 10 days. On set up added stress coat and stress zyme as I had been advised to do. Added some plant life about 4 days ago - everything appears to be growing nicely.Should I  be adding some plant food? We have a pebble base as that is all that was available at the pet store.
 
The ammonia, ph level, nitrite and nitrate levels all have remained the same. ph 7.4 ammonia 0-0.25ppm nitrite is at 0ppm also nitate is at 0ppm.  I've been adding a small amount of fish food daily with the hope that it will start off a cycle. Will this help or am I wasting my time?  Ive not been able to find "pure" ammonia in the stores. Took a stock of gravel media from the tank that the neon tetras are in and this has been in the new tank since day 2. We are testing the water every 2-3 days. 
 
Any advice. I would love to at least add my tetras to the new tank but would prefer to do a fishless cycle given that we lost a fair bit of money through lack of knowledge.

 

[Ninjouzata]

to TFF! Hope you enjoy it here.
 
Sorry you got off to a rough start You don't need to add any plant food.
 
The thing with adding fish food for the ammonia is you cannot measure how much it will put off and you have to wait for it to break down.
 
See if THIS has any sources of ammonia for you, I think there were one or two for NZ. After that I'd have a read of THIS if you havn't already.

 

[Newbie185]

I have just emailed the Jeyes company office in New Zealand will post what they have available as a replacement product in New Zealand as the only one I could see was a drain cleaner. I have a feeling this would be a little harsh on our plant life in the tank.
 
Noticed tonight after testing at mid day that the water is rather cloudy and smells a little stagnant even though we have an air wall covering the total length of the tank (91 cm) and an Hailea  BL-BT1000 running. Do i clean the carbon cartridge or replace this at all during cycling? I do not want to repeat our disaster in the smaller tank.
 
The BT1000 i feel is a little overpowered for the tank. Its been rather rough on the poor plants uprooting several of them. have replanted because they showed good root growth. Maybe I am doing something right after all

.
 
I have pretty much researched cycling because of our first disaster. But will certainly use your article as a cross reference when i need to.

 

[Mamashack]

to TFF! Hope your new tank cycles well with the stuff you get from Jeyes! As long as it is pure ammonia with water and no additives and if you follow the article to the letter it should be fine 
When you can post some pictures 

 

[Newbie185]

@ Fish herder I plan to post some as soon as i get rid of this cloudy water that seems to have appeared over the past 24 hours. So far no reply from Jeyes so am just continuing to run the tank with bubble wall and Haliea BT1000. Am convinced that this filter is way to powerful for a 150 ltr tank.
 
Did 20 % change today with hope to reduce cloudy water. PH remains at 7.4 ammonia between 0 and 0.25 ppm, nitrite 0 and nitrate 0. Tanks now been running 14 days. Have stopped adding fish food. Removed some dead/damaged plant material and cleaned carbon insert and filter sponge in tank water so not to damage any bacteria (hope this is the correct thing to do) also removed some food particles from tank - thought this may be cause of cloudy appearance.
 
Smell has not improved - am mystified as to what may be the cause. Not dead fish as doing a planted fishless cycle.
 
How long would my little tetras survive without filtration? Im a little tempted to remove the BT1000 and just run the smaller BT400 in the new tank but this would mean removing the filter from the tetras tank. Not completely sure i want to do that after loosing so many little fish in our disaster month.
 
sorry if im bombarding with questions ... i dont want to loose another batch of fish because of lack of knowledge. 

 

[Gruntle]

Your cloudy water is most probably just a bacterial bloom, it's perfectly normal and will clear within a week or so.
 
From what I've read here ammonia can be difficult to obtain in New Zealand, so if you can't get some, get a raw prawn/shrimp, cut it up and put it in the tank (in a mesh bag if you can so it's semi-contained). We strongly recommend a fishless cycle where at all possible.
 
By the look of it your filter turns over 1000l/hour, which is about appropriate for your tank size (somewhere between 4 and 10x the volume of the tank). You may want to fit a spray bar on the outlet, which will spread the flow across the tank (and can help in rippling the surface for gas exchange). I have a 1000l/hr on a 200l tank with an extended spray bar, and a 550l/hr on a 130l tank.

 

[Newbie185]

I managed to find some cloudy ammonia is this safe to use?
 
Active ingrediants listed are: Ammomium hydoxide 18g/l
 
it does bubble when shaken. The bubbles do settle after around five minutes. I have read this can indicate that there is detergent in it as well. If so it looks like it may be a 100% water change and filtration clean ect as I was told that it was the same as just ammonia.
 
I added 5ml to our 150l tank figuring this was about the right amount. Do I now have to drain the tank and start again? (will never listen to supermarket workers again if this is the case).
 
Perimiters on testing were pretty much the same with a slight ammonia increase to 1ppm.
 
I tried running the filter with spray bar and it was still very turbulent so invested in a Hailea BT400 which says it will cover a tank to 110l. My thoughts are that i will transfer the BT400 that is in the neon tank when i transfer the neons over. So will run two BT400s in the tank with the spray bars facing opposing directions, should get a nice water flow from this

 

[Newbie185]

Tank water is clear but can anybody verify that cloudy ammonia is unsafe to use please. Tank is still running with it in. Dont want to kill any active bacteria that were in the BT400 i transferred from the neon tank.

 

[Ninjouzata]

I -think- you can use it but don't shake before adding it to the tank. You may want to rinse the tank well and put in some carbon after the cycle too.
 
From Blondielovesfish (she's from NZ) on that source thread I linked to you "Just one thing to add, I have read in multiple places that you can use ammonia that froths and has additives as long as you don't shake it so all of the additives rest on the bottom. Several people have had success with using this type of ammonia. I doubt it is as good as pure ammonia but for those that cannot find a pure source it is probably better than using food. I haven't had any experience with this method but I thought I should still put it out there"

 

[Newbie185]

Oh I panicked and did a full 100% water change. I had shaken the bottle. So back to square one. Recycling tank. I'm using a carbon insert in the Hailea pump, should I remove this to cycle. I think I will settle for the cloudy ammonia (not shaking bottle) perhaps I should blog my result on here so others can read and see if its suitable for their needs. Sorry so many questions.
 
After our disaster tank (aka death tank) we have three surviving neons the ph level has remained constant 7.4. Had that ammonia spike/overstock incidence but it has never ever had a reading for nitrites or nitrates. Just wondering if this is normal. Do have one live plant in the tank. Its been running around 3 months now. Neons are very playful and look really healthy. Feeding twice a day with a very very small pinch of flakes. Once a week dropping a shrimp pellet in for change of diet.
 
Ill post a picture of both tanks. Since water change in the 150ltr it is nice and clear . 

 

[Ninjouzata]

You should be getting nitrates in your other tank unless it's very heavily planted, hmm. If you're doing water changes often though then that might be why you're not seeing any.
 
In regards to worrying about that ammonia, THIS may put you at ease. Read TwoTankAmin's post (#10)

 

[Newbie185]

Completely gave up on ever hearing from Jeyes company in new Zealand. Still awaiting a reply

. A week after shaking the cloudy ammonia, it still has bubbles on top of the container so am pleased i did 100 % water change. We are trying the cut up shrimp because it is impossible to find a reliable source of ammonia products in New Zealand.
 
#how long should we be leaving the shrimp in the water?
#at what ppm ammonia reading using the api testing kit should we remove the shrimp bits?
#just how often should we be testing the ammonia levels with the shrimp in there?
 
I know that this is not the most reliable way of doing a fishless cycle but surely better than loosing a full tank of fish. 
 
@ Ninjaouzata we have very similar in the cold water tank which rarely gets water change. No plants and only one decoration in it. Running a  Haliea BT200 in this tank. Its about a 20 ltr and just has a couple of comets in it.
 
It is a possibility with the Neon tank that the water changes are the cause as it went through some pretty heavy water changes when we started loosing fish from in it. Also it got a bit smelly so i did a 20% change then. It has settled down now and we do not plan to add any more stock to the smaller tank.