Hi - New Member - Few Questions!

[MikeO]

Hi,

First post - hello everyone!

I have just today returned to keeping fish after a long time out - I used to have a community tank when I was a kid, so been out of it for a while - first time I have done such a large tank though, so after some basic advice on where I am.

I have a 260L tank - Just started it off today with some tap safe and cycle solution. Firstly, how many water changes should I be looking to do on this, over how long, before introducing any fish? I have a full ph and Nitrate lab kit to test it, but a ball park figure would be nice.

I have just one heater in it at the moment - should I be looking to add a second heater because of the size tank? All tanks I have had before were much smaller, so unsure if an additional heater is required in a tank of this size.

I have fitted a fluval U4 - I know this states up to 240l, but at half the price of the external filters considering I have everything to buy, it seemed like it would "do for now" - am I right in this assumption? The tank will not be massively full to start off anyway.

Air pump wise, the shop recommended a Tetratec 150 - Its in the living room, so wanted something quiet - Is this of sufficient size to airate the tank sufficiently? I wasnt sure on this one and thought maybe something bigger would have been better. I do also have an extra Tetratec 50 anyway, which I plan to run at the opposite end of the tank.


Thinks thats all my questions!

I plan to put in a range of common and semi-rare fish, but not made final decisions yet.

Thanks!

Mike

 

[Assaye]

Hi,

First post - hello everyone!

I have just today returned to keeping fish after a long time out - I used to have a community tank when I was a kid, so been out of it for a while - first time I have done such a large tank though, so after some basic advice on where I am.

Hi, Mike! It's great to see you here. The members have a lot of experience in all kinds of fishkeeping and we have some really sharp minds here, so you've come to the right place!

I have a 260L tank - Just started it off today with some tap safe and cycle solution. Firstly, how many water changes should I be looking to do on this, over how long, before introducing any fish? I have a full ph and Nitrate lab kit to test it, but a ball park figure would be nice.

You need to make sure you have a liquid test kit that covers ammonia, nitrite and nitrates. pH and GH/KH (hardness) are also very useful so that you know what kind of fish you can keep. If you only have pH and nitrates, you'll need to pick the others up =)

I imagine quite a bit has changed since you were last keeping fish. These days we swear by cycling the tank. Cycling builds up a vital colony of benificial nitrifying bacteria that will be the life support system in your tank. Without these and your fish will be exposed to very high levels of ammonia, which will kill or severely damage them and shorten their lifespans. This is what your filter is for - the high water movement and oxygen levels in the filter are the perfect environment for the bacteria to live!

We can cycle in two main ways - fishless and fish-in. Fishless uses an ammonia source to build up the bacteria without harming fish. Fish-in uses the fish themselves. This is a very old method and not without it's problems - the fish get exposed to (sometimes lethal) levels of ammonia and nitrite before the bacteria are strong enough in number to neutralise the chemicals.

I have just one heater in it at the moment - should I be looking to add a second heater because of the size tank? All tanks I have had before were much smaller, so unsure if an additional heater is required in a tank of this size.

Do you have a thermometer? This will tell you if the heater is keeping the tank at a steady temperature. If the heater spends most of it's time off and keeps the tank at a steady temperature, then it will be fine. If not, get a second heater or a more powerful one. A second heater gives you backup in case the first breaks or dies

I have fitted a fluval U4 - I know this states up to 240l, but at half the price of the external filters considering I have everything to buy, it seemed like it would "do for now" - am I right in this assumption? The tank will not be massively full to start off anyway.

You can of course upgrade the filter later, as long as you move all the media (sponges/ceramic rings/etc) from the old filter into the new one to preserve the nitrifying bacteria. We would recommend an external filter on a tank of that size, however, as it will do a more efficient job and can be kept out of sight and thus release a tiny bit more space in the tank.

Air pump wise, the shop recommended a Tetratec 150 - Its in the living room, so wanted something quiet - Is this of sufficient size to airate the tank sufficiently? I wasnt sure on this one and thought maybe something bigger would have been better. I do also have an extra Tetratec 50 anyway, which I plan to run at the opposite end of the tank.

I can't help you much with pumps - I have high surface movement and a lot of plants in my tanks so don't need to worry about oxygen levels too much.

Aeration comes from plants (with produce oxygen) and surface movement (which encourages the exchange of gasses into the water). All pumps do is add extra surface movement - those bubbles don't directly oxygenate the water. If you have an external filter, I'd recommend either a pump or a spray bar on the filter. It can't hurt to have a pump but you might not need it if you have visible surface movement.

This link here covers everything you need to know to get your tank up and running, from cycling to pH levels to getting some fish. Have a good read (bookmark it, lol) and let us know if you have any questions!

Resource Centre

 

[erk628]

Hello Mike and welcome to TFF!. I am glad to see that you have decided to do some research before getting fish! First off the cycle stuff you have added to you tank is known as bacteria in a bottle. 99.9% of the time by the time you get the bottle all the bacteria in it are dead. There for adding it to your tank doesn't do any harm but it doesn't help either. I noticed you said you have a testing kit but noticed you said it tests for ph and nitrates. The kit that most of of use here is the API master "liquid" test kit. This kit tests for ammonia, nitrites, nitrates, ph. You want to make sure that your test kit tests for all of these and to make sure that its a liquid test kit and not the strips because the strips are very inaccurate.

Ok seeing how we have determined that the cycle stuff you added won't cycle your tank the first think you need to do after you make sure you have a good "liquid" testing kit is to get that tank cycled or rather the filter. There are two methods you can do when cycling your tank the preferred fishless or the not preferred fishin cycle method.

Ok seeing how you don't have any fish I would strongly suggest you go with the fishless cycle its much easier on you and the fish. There is a link in my sig below labeled fishless cycle and it will tell you exactly how to do it. There are different ways to do a fishless cycles but they all revolve around the same thing and thats adding a source of ammonia. The method in the link will show you how to use pure ammonia which is the preferred method on this forum. When using pure ammonia there are two ways to do it which the link describes the add and wait or the add daily. While your tank is cycling this will be a perfect time for you to begin doing research on the kinds of fish you will want to be keeping. Once you get a stocking list together you can post it on here and we can go over it with you.

For your tank size one heater will be fine not sure on the wattage your will need I'm sure someone else will chime in on this but you will want to locate it in the middle of your tank.

I'm a huge fan of over filtering a tank I would suggest 5 to 10 times gph ten your tank size which is roughly 69 gallons. For a tank this size I would suggest one good canister or two HOB's one on each side. As far as a airpump goes this is not needed as long as your filters are breaking the water surface this will give put enough oxygen in the water.

I would also suggest you read the other links in my sig there is alot of useful information in them. If you have any questions just ask we will be more then happy to help!

 

[waterdrop]

Yes, welcome from me too. You've got good advice up above so I'll try not to repeat things for now as getting the right liquid test kits and finding the right sort of household ammonia for fishless cycling will be the usual first priorities of beginners these days and that can take a bit of work!

Unless you are really set on it for looks, I'd not get a pump/airstone and would instead safe the money towards a good external cannister filter (such as one of the less expensive Tetratec models) which will be a much more important thing. Pump/Air setups are just for looks. The important thing is that you point your filter output such that it keeps the surface water moving. That's what will give your water a good exchange of gases.

~~waterdrop~~

 

[drobbyb]

Hi Mike! Welcome to TFF!

I just wanted to hop in here and echo what the others have said. With all this talk about cycling, I see that you are looking to keep a community with some hard to find fish. That's great! Community tanks are a lot of fun, and if dome correctly, can be staggeringly beautiful. While your tank is cycling, it's the perfect time to start to decide on what fish are a must have, and which ones are optional. Do you live in the UK or the US? Finding hard to find fish can be a different experience depending on where you live, and different fish are available in either country. Do you happen to have any ideas already so that we may help you source those fish?

 

[MikeO]

Thanks for the replies so far.

I have a Nutrafin (mini master) test kit, which is liquid. I did each test just on the tap water as I read in a guide.

PH 6.5
Ammonia 0
Nitrite 0
Nitrate 0

The kit doesn't have the hardness tester in, but I know that the area here is about "average" as far as hardness goes. Will see if I can pick up an individual test kit for this next time I am at the LFS.

So was pleased that the tap water here doesnt have any issues!

I have been out to look for ammonia tonight, but Asda have taken it off their shelves. They also didn't have the Jeyes ammonia product either. There is a Boots next door to where I work, so that is the next stop tomorrow. Boots do sell it on their website, so worst case I can order some, but really want to start it ASAP. Cycling is not something I would have done when I last had a tank - its also amazing how much the filters have changed. Back when I had my old tank, the filter consisted of the pump unit, that slotted onto the filter body (which was always a nightmare to get on and off!!) which had a round sock in - that was it! Was very interesting to see the carbon cartridge and "Biomax Nodes" in the filter along with the traditional sponge.

I think an external filter will be something I upgrade to once the tank is established and full, but for now the internal should be fine by the sounds of it. I am keeping the pump going and will probably have the second one going too - pretty set on having it look good as well as having a variety of decent healthy stock.

I do not have a shortlist of fish yet, but will come back with one once I have drawn it up. With it being a community tank I am looking for a nice mix with some smaller, common fish and various rarer breeds to compliment them. There is plenty of space with it being 260L, so I dont think that it would look too out of place having a number of different breeds.

 

[waterdrop]

Good! Glad to hear you have a good test kit and good tap water, both will be of benefit. Keep up the ammonia story. We all enjoy following those as they can become an adventure and sometimes new members come up with creative ideas of places or simply find new chain stores that we didn't know had it.

~~waterdrop~~
ps. read lots of other members threads as that can be both entertaining and another way to pick up interesting info!

 

[MikeO]

Well I went to Boots today - they had no ammonia as they have apparently discontinued it - they do still have it for mail order on their website though, so maybe they are just clearing the stock.

However, I have managed to source some (500ml bottle for £2.99) from a hardware shop in Barnard Castle. There was no concentration % on the bottle, or any indication if it was perfumed, so just went for it (well, the missus picked it up for me). Did the "shake test" and no bubbles, it also stinks as ammonia should, so pretty happy that it is the right stuff.

Have just added 13ml to the tank - how long should I wait until I test it again?

 

[drobbyb]

I've seen people post that 20 minutes after you add the ammonia, you should be mixed well enough to test.

 

[MikeO]

Well I have tested it after adding the recommended 13ml as per the calculator, but the result is now 7ppm - so not a great start!

 

[drobbyb]

Do a 30% waterchange. That should sort it for you.

 

[MikeO]

Aye - just finishing off doing a 25% change - Bit too late at night for a major change with the size of the tank + dechlorinising bucket by bucket! Hopefully no damage done. Will test it again once done.


*edit*

Well that took it down to about 3 - Think I will add 2ml ammonia and do it in smaller stages to get up to 5