Here Goes....

[keenonfish]

Well finally my Vision 180 has found a permanent home in the house and I can go about filling her up now

Anyway I want to go the planted tank route, but due to budget restrictions I want to keep things nice and simple without having to depend on CO2 for now, which I think won't be an issue with the following light levels...

currently I have 2 x 35W T5 lamps which I have worked out to give me approximately 1.75W / Gallon. I will be using the internal Juwel filter (600ltr/min).

I intend to start fishless and perform a carefully monitored fish in cycle so will this be a problem if I introduce too many plants too early?

My main thing is with the fertaliser.. I will be using 3 - 7mm gravel (varying sizes). I am wondering if I really need fertaliser or if I can do without, later relying on fish waste and maybe additives like Plantamin etc?

Regarding plants some suggestions for low light would help me a lot as I am a little overwhelmed with choice atm!

Java Moss / Ferns
Anubias spp
Nymphaea daubenyana
twisted vallis?
E.bleheri?


Sorry if it seems I am asking 'already asked' questions but each setup seems to have differing requirements and I think I am just confusing myself trying to work it out so any help with this will be appreciated!

Olly.

 

[aaronnorth]

currently I have 2 x 35W T5 lamps which I have worked out to give me approximately 1.75W / Gallon. I will be using the internal Juwel filter (600ltr/min).

T5's give out more light per square inch so you will be more like 2.4wpg.

I intend to start fishless and perform a carefully monitored fish in cycle so will this be a problem if I introduce too many plants too early?

Adding lots of plants (75% substrate coverage) will use the ammonia produced by fish so you can stock lightly and ammonia wont be an issue. You can do 50% water changes very day to help aswell.

My main thing is with the fertaliser.. I will be using 3 - 7mm gravel (varying sizes). I am wondering if I really need fertaliser or if I can do without, later relying on fish waste and maybe additives like Plantamin etc?

Get some Tropica Plant Nutrition+
The only time i would suggest you can get awya with ferts if you have 1wpg and heavy stocking.

Hygrophillia sp
mosses
anubias
microsourm sp
vallisneria sp
echinodorous sp
cryptocoryne sp
bolbitis sp

 

[keenonfish]

Thanks aaronnorth. That liquid fert looks ok and not too expensive which is a plus point!
Can you advise somewhere to get some of these species? Am I better off going to local LFS (Urmston aquatics) or are some of those pick 'n' mix for £5 plant collections off ebay any good?

I think you have clarified things for me anyway so that's appreciated..

I am off to LFS tomorrow to have a browse

 

[Truck]

aqua essentials and the green machine, google them you get MASSIVE plants literally i ordered some crypts and they were all about 12cm tall!

 

[aaronnorth]

Ebay packages usually come with non-aquatics, and if it says "25 plants" it will mean you get 5stems of 5 varietys, so you never get enough to get a good bush growing.

I would use the green machine and/ or aqau essentials for the ajority of the species i listed above because you get a massive, well established plants for the money, and they are slow growing so it is better not to use another source as you usually get a tiny plant that takes ages to grow.

For the H.Polysperma, i would use any source, it is like a weed and grows very fast so even if you get it in bad condition then it will soon be in top shape!

Maidenhead Aquatics also stock Aquafleur plants which are almost just as good as tropica plants but cheaper. P@H stock tropica plants but you are better off going in on the delivery day as they dont keep them long.

Plants alive are a cheap, yet dcent source for plants. Alternatively ask in the buy & swap section.

 

[keenonfish]

Ebay packages usually come with non-aquatics, and if it says "25 plants" it will mean you get 5stems of 5 varietys, so you never get enough to get a good bush growing.

I would use the green machine and/ or aqau essentials for the ajority of the species i listed above because you get a massive, well established plants for the money, and they are slow growing so it is better not to use another source as you usually get a tiny plant that takes ages to grow.

For the H.Polysperma, i would use any source, it is like a weed and grows very fast so even if you get it in bad condition then it will soon be in top shape!

Maidenhead Aquatics also stock Aquafleur plants which are almost just as good as tropica plants but cheaper. P@H stock tropica plants but you are better off going in on the delivery day as they dont keep them long.

Plants alive are a cheap, yet dcent source for plants. Alternatively ask in the buy & swap section.

Ok thanks I might actually take a trip to Green Machine as they are about an hour away from me so that would be cool...

I have got a Maidenhead not too far so I will try them. Not much luck at the other place today apparently due to Chinese being drunk atm As for P@H never going their again last time I went the Neon tanks had white spot AND Columnaris at the same time

Incidentally, what is the generally consensus on Diana Walsted / Tom Barr setups? Have you ever been tempted to go against the grain and try these methods or is it just a little too o'naturel? Must say from what I have seen of these tanks they do look a little bit untidy but it appears you can grow just about anything and quite quickly too.. I think the low mainatainance possibly takes something out the hobby though - I quite enjoy the weekly water change

P.S could you clarify microsourm sp for me I can't find on google and also same with Aquafleur(?) plants too.

Thanks,

Olly.

 

[aaronnorth]

microsorum pteropus (java fern). You can also get other species such as "narrow" "phillipine" "windelov" etc.

Tom barr's tanks are not ow tech/ el natural, his look more like this:
http/www.fishforums.net/index.php?showtopic=155875&hl=
http/www.fishforums.net/index.php?showtopic=203875&hl=
http/www.fishforums.net/index.php?showtopic=205611&hl=

However Walstad style tanks do not appeal to me, i much prefer the modern methods of fertilisation and artifical CO2 injection etc, and also the looks but that's just me

Aquafleur Plants

 

[keenonfish]

microsorum pteropus (java fern). You can also get other species such as "narrow" "phillipine" "windelov" etc.

Tom barr's tanks are not ow tech/ el natural, his look more like this:
[URL="http/www.fishforums.net/index.php?showtopic=155875&hl="]http/www.fishforums.net/index.php?showtopic=155875&hl=[/URL]
[URL="http/www.fishforums.net/index.php?showtopic=203875&hl="]http/www.fishforums.net/index.php?showtopic=203875&hl=[/URL]
[URL="http/www.fishforums.net/index.php?showtopic=205611&hl="]http/www.fishforums.net/index.php?showtopic=205611&hl=[/URL]

However Walstad style tanks do not appeal to me, i much prefer the modern methods of fertilisation and artifical CO2 injection etc, and also the looks but that's just me

Aquafleur Plants

Oh hey what are you doing to me aaronnorth Great links and have to say I am liking the look of this EI business and it isn't as expensive as I thought...

Couple of things I am not too clear with so please forgive me if I have missed the obvious...

ok if I change sub to sand I assume the three daily micro / macro nutrient additions are all I need or do I need a fertaliser in the substrate?

Also my water comes out the tap at about PH7.2 and changes to about 7.6 after a week with fish stock. Should I get a GH / GK testing kit to determine whether the other addition (name of which evades me atm) is required?

Reading a couple of articles suggests I need to inject CO2 but in another Tom Barr writeup he suggests to start without CO2 then if you wish to mess around with that then stronger light etc.. if that is where you want to go. I assume this will largely be dependent on light levels (again) and fish load..?

Thanks..

Olly.

 

[SuperColey1]

Search barrreport.com for the 'non CO2 methods' thread. Tom leads you through it there. He uses much more in his substrates than many of you would imagine!!!

4 levels in some cases!!!

AC

 

[aaronnorth]

EI was invented to be cheap and effective for dosing on tanks, the initial start up costs of buying the powders is quite dear but they can last you years!

ok if I change sub to sand I assume the three daily micro / macro nutrient additions are all I need or do I need a fertaliser in the substrate?

Having a fertiliser in the substrate means you can go lighter on the dosing in the water column ,and plants always have a back up source of nutrients incase you miss a dose etc. It is optional but if oyu are just setting up then i would advise to have a nutrient rich substrate as it helps a lot. It doesnt have to be expensive either, you could buy some tropica substrate and cap that with sand.

Also my water comes out the tap at about PH7.2 and changes to about 7.6 after a week with fish stock. Should I get a GH / GK testing kit to determine whether the other addition (name of which evades me atm) is required?

Some sort of "hardwater" mineral such as calcium or magnesium? I would wait and see if the plants show any signs of defficiencies, then you can pick out what you are doing wrong and it can be soon sorted very easily

Reading a couple of articles suggests I need to inject CO2 but in another Tom Barr writeup he suggests to start without CO2 then if you wish to mess around with that then stronger light etc.. if that is where you want to go. I assume this will largely be dependent on light levels (again) and fish load..?

It is a good idea if you can to start off with - for example - half your lighting, and a 6hr photoperiod as this helps with any early algae issues, then after a few months you can gradually raise the lighting, then the photeriod until you are at the 'max' that you want to go. I am starting to notice this is a method that many are starting to use now.

 

[keenonfish]

@Supercoley1 thanks great link and some interesting reads their!

@Aaronnorth once again thanks for your advice. Yes I might go for a simple base sand / sub mix then. Regards the lighting I will have a look to see if there are any suitable single tube ballasts available. It would be a shame to only have short photo periods but if it helps in the long run then so be it!

ok I will go quiet for a while now get a bit more reading in Might as well take my time as I have had the tank for long enough now LOL...

Cheers,

Olly.