Help

[puffer duffer]

hello,my tank is in need of urgent help please!,i have had the tank juwel rio 180 for 3 years and everything has been fine.............until now.
i have; 5 dwarf rainbow fish
6 corys
2 african dwarf frogs
7 white clouds
8 neon tetra
1 baby angel
1 small bristlenose plec

i decided to do the planted tank thing and added 1 bag of eco complete to form 2 mounds either side of the tank and added plants which seem to be growing fine,this was about 2 months ago...........fish now dying! some have fungus which i have been treating with salt dips and it seems to be getting better but just when 1 gets better another 1 gets it so i have treated with fungus and finrot to the whole tank the problem is the stats for the tank have gone mad....ph 8.0
kh 360
GH 125
nitrate 40
nitrite 0.5
ammonia 0

i followed dosage for fungus treatment to the letter and have since done 40% water change to try and help but whats going on why ph,kh,gh,and nitrite so high is it eco complete or fungus med,fish were already ill when i added med and ph,kh,gh was gradually getting higher after adding eco complete....................sorry for long babbling but wanted to give all info i could,any advice welcome,thanks.

 

[VaegaVic]

Hi there, sorry to hear about your recent losses.

When retreating after water changes, did you retreat the amount of water changed or the whole tank again?

Eco complete contains a buffer that will stablise pH, but with added water changes and the fish meds, I'm guessing it's all gone a bit wrong.

Best thing to do is grit your teeth and bare it.

 

[WILDER]

What's your tap ph.
How many gallon or litres is the tank.


Meds can knock water stats.

The fungus on the fish does it look like white cotton wool on the fish.
Also the anti finrot and fungus med not very good on columnaris.
Also been know for fish to have a bad reaction to the med.

 

[puffer duffer]

oh what a donkey!!! i dosed for full tank! but it said to dose then leave for 7 days do a 30% water change and dose again if necessary.. have i made a school boy error or what! so im taking it that high dose has taken out my bacteria.....what a plonker!! ph is 7 usually (out of tap).....so ive already done 40% water change and added carbon to the filter.........what next??? sorry forgot to say tanks 180 litres,and fungus looks like white patches but wouldnt say cotton wool? i could be wrong,but it seems to be getting better on fish that havent died ,this is the first time ive had to treat tank for anything and i was feeling quiet smugg with myself.....well pride always comes before a fall!!!

 

[WILDER]

Bad water quality can alter ph but not my that much.

List everything you have in the tank, subsrate.

Do the fish still have cotton wool patches on them.
If so you need to treat with myxazin by waterlife and pimafix.

Don't add the meds till you have run black carbon for a least aday.

I big ph swing can cause death.
Going to leave the ph symtoms.

What test kit are you using.
Also check hardness of tap water.

 

[WILDER]

pH Shock
As its name suggests this condition occurs when a fish is introduced to quickly into a new environment which has a very different pH from the one it came from, when the pH is adjusted to quickly and the fish have little or no time to adjust themselves, or when the pH is to far outside the fishes normal range
It is very important that any change in water chemistry is made slowly and fish should never be exposed to changes of pH greater than 0.5 of one unit on the pH scale in either direction.<br /><br />Avoidance is by far the best solution because in most cases the symptoms don't appear until the second or third day by which time the damage has been done and the fish will probably die.
A fish suffering from this condition will show all the typical signs of shock,
Lying on the bottom and paying little or no attention to its surroundings and ignoring potential threats.
It may even lay on its side or go upside down completely. <br />There could be other signs to, related to Acidosis and Alkalosis. Excessive mucus production. <br />Rapid breathing. Swollen abdomen. (Alkalosis only).If the condition is allowed to go on for one or two days then the chances of a successful remedy are greatly reduced because a lot of damage will have taken place.
If the symptoms are spotted early enough there are a couple of things that will help.<bBegin to return the pH to the original pH in steps of 0.4 of one unit on the pH scale and allow 3 hrs in between the adjustments. Make these adjustments until the pH is returned to a safe and satisfactory level.
Treat the tank with a broad spectrum anti-Bacteria/Fungus compound to prevent secondary infections of the Skin and Gills.<br />Prevention is easy. A successful treatment isn't!<br />PH SHOCK LINK<br />http/groups.msn.com/FishHealth/phshock.msnw<br />http/puffernet.tripod.com/

 

[puffer duffer]

hello and thanks for help.....substrate is gravel and eco complete,eco complete added 2 months ago gravel in there from the start approx 3 years,white patches are getting smaller and strangely fish are acting normal no hanging at surface or lying on the bottom all seem to be normal appart from 1 neon that is head standing a bit but then all of a sudden rejoins the group and looks normal,its been doing this for a few days,tap water is very hard normally the only major change is ph and nitrite which wasnt there before meds....fish seem fine but then die overnight?,i have also increased oxygen in tank b turning ventri on full..any more advice,should i do small water changes everyday? using api strip tests and another brand for ammonia (cant remember brand and have run out but it didnt show any ammonia),also api tests nitrate and nitrite and ive tested with king british nitrate and nitrite test to and they both give the same reading..thanks

 

[WILDER]

Ok.
Can't understand why your ph has gone from 7 to 8.
Maybe do a thread in tropical discussion.

I think I would take a sample of your water to the lfs and ask them to write the readings down for up.
Need to look at ph by a good liquid test kit. Not the strip cards.

 

[fatheadminnow]

Yes, it seems to me the fish have been shocked by the recent changes in water parameters, which has made them stressed out to the point in getting sick.

You said you increased the oxygen in your water...when did you do this? Increase oxygen/aeration is going to make the pH go up because it is going to gas off Co2. Less Co2 = Increase pH.

I would not worry too much about your GH and KH. The substrate may have raised these a bit which would increase the pH as a "side" affect. I am sure the pH, GH and KH will stabilize over time as things get on to their normal way.

So, this is where I am at:
The substrate raised the GH, KH and pH (The pH change is going to effect fish more than GH or KH) which made your fish stressed out to the point of getting sick.

Then you reacted by dosing meds. Well, sometimes meds will actually kill off our beneficial bacteria, and if this is the case, this would explain your spike in nitrite. You probably had a spike in ammonia as well.

Now, as things seem to be getting better, you have stopped dosing meds, and your nitrite should drop to 0 ppm. However, as you added the substrate, your pH might remain where it is at.

This is what I got out of it; lets hope the worse is behind.

So, I would continue what you are doing; stop meds, and just keep a close eye in water parameters, and do water changes accordingly.

-FHM

 

[puffer duffer]

thanks for everyones help,well heres where im at now i increased airation after doing first tests because i thought more oxygen in tank would help bacteria get back up,i had no idea it could raise ph,so should i lower oxygen again?
ok so i brought a api master test kit today a liquid one and here are results.
ph 7.4
ammonia 0
nitrite 0.25
nitrate 20

it looks like stats arent as bad as i thought or have changed since first strip tests,i have added carbon to filter and also added a full bag of carbon hanging in front of internal filter out take to try and get rid of meds,the water has also gone cloudy blueish green colour which is weird because the med was white? chemical reaction of some kind? i use seachem prime water conditioner could this with med of caused funny colour? filters are eheim 2224 and fluval u3 internal could meds of really kicked both of them out so quickly?

 

[puffer duffer]

ok so now i have my test kit i decided to test all 3 tanks,weird results;
125ltr tank with celestal pearl danios and cherry shrimp;
ph 8-8.2
ammonia 0
nitrite 0
nitrate 20

54ltr dwarf puffer and amano shrimp tank
ph 7.8
ammonia 0
nitrite 0
nitrate 20

180ltr community,the one with the problems
ph 7.4
ammonia 0
nitrite 0.25
nitrate 20

my question is why is there such a difference in ph between the tanks? ph of tap water between 7.6-7.8 and all tanks planted,the 125ltr and 180ltr both have bogwood in which i thought lowered ph? any ideas why the 125ltr tank is so high? the fish are fine but still its a bit higher than i would like....