Help with southeast Asian stocking

[Coryking]

Hello there. I am trying to set up a southeast Asian Aquarium. But I need a bit of help with stocking. It's a 30 planted gallon tank. I currently have a shy three spot gourami whiptail catfish ( I know it's not Asian but he's staying) and 6 black kuhli loach. I am interested in a catfish, bamboo shrimp and halfbeak. I don't mind keeping difficult fish having kept many expert fish before. Many thanks

 

[Wills]

Sounds like a fun project Bamboo Shrimp are a good call and fun looking critter - bit too creepy crawly for me though haha! I was contemplating them for me but when I saw some adults in a store knew it wasnt for me...

How about a group of Glass Catfish, Krypotopterus Vitreolus. Quite a common fish in some ways but I think hugely over rated and an interesting looking animal Maybe a school of medium sized Rasbora or Danio, maybe Glowlight Danios or Pearls? I'd get more Kuhli Loaches too as their behaviour changes loads in a big group, more confident, more active

Wills

 

[WhistlingBadger]

Hi, Coryking. SE Asia is one of my favorite aquarium areas! 30 gallon gives you a lot of possibilities. I've never kept three-spot gouramis, but I'm guessing a small group of one male and two females would be a lot more active and less shy. (The 2F/1M combo is ideal for pearl gouramis in a 30g, and I believe three spots are very similar in size and behavior) I concur that more kuhlis would be good. I've never kept halfbeaks, and I've never had any luck with bamboo shrimp, but they are REALLY cool looking. I believe they need quite a bit of current. I've kept amano shrimp in many tanks. They're almost as cool looking and a lot easier to keep, IME.

Some other thoughts: For bottom feeders, check out dwarf chain loaches. One of my all-time favorite bottom feeders; you want at least seven. Panda garra are really cool too, though being from northern Myanmar they're right on the edge of SE Asia. Pentazona barbs are a really nice, small, not-too-active schooler worth looking into. So are harlequin and espei rasboras.

If you're doing a planted tank, we can give you some pointers on great plants from the region too. Good luck!

 

[Coryking]

Sounds like a fun project Bamboo Shrimp are a good call and fun looking critter - bit too creepy crawly for me though haha! I was contemplating them for me but when I saw some adults in a store knew it wasnt for me...

How about a group of Glass Catfish, Krypotopterus Vitreolus. Quite a common fish in some ways but I think hugely over rated and an interesting looking animal Maybe a school of medium sized Rasbora or Danio, maybe Glowlight Danios or Pearls? I'd get more Kuhli Loaches too as their behaviour changes loads in a big group, more confident, more active

Wills

Thanks very much for the help. I have seen glass catfish before I didn't realize there from southeast Asia. How many would you recommend. And are there any other catfish from there that are suitable. I did not think danios were suitable with gouramis. But if there are I will add them to my list of fish to consider. I will get some more Kuhli loaches. How many more do you think I should get

 

[Beastije]

I wouldnt combine halfbeaks with other surface dwelling fish like gourami, they are hard to feed, like not too strong flow ( same as gourami) but they dont do well with boisterous fish. They do best in a species only tank or with some pleco or corydoras.
30 gallon is too small for any barbs to be honest. Garras need a special setup in the tank, including the substrate and water flow and oxygenation, which the gourami or loaches wont appreciate.
30 gallon is not that large so pick 3 types of fish and stick with them.
I understand you have loaches now, one catfish and a three spotted gourami (as in three species) already, correct?
I think your bottom area is maxed out, so I would add two female spotted gourami and then you can go with a smaller school of rasboras, like 15 but not too small like chilli or the gourami will eat them. Harlequins will work I guess

I would also under no circumstance combine a bamboo shrimp and a gourami. Bamboo shrimp are static, sitting in a flow with their fans out, and the gourami are biters, they dont do well with snails and antennaes so I wouldnt risk the delicate fans. The shrimp would be harassed and stressed and die. Amanos might work with gourami, adult ones though.

 

[Coryking]

Hi, Coryking. SE Asia is one of my favorite aquarium areas! 30 gallon gives you a lot of possibilities. I've never kept three-spot gouramis, but I'm guessing a small group of one male and two females would be a lot more active and less shy. (The 2F/1M combo is ideal for pearl gouramis in a 30g, and I believe three spots are very similar in size and behavior) I concur that more kuhlis would be good. I've never kept halfbeaks, and I've never had any luck with bamboo shrimp, but they are REALLY cool looking. I believe they need quite a bit of current. I've kept amano shrimp in many tanks. They're almost as cool looking and a lot easier to keep, IME.

Some other thoughts: For bottom feeders, check out dwarf chain loaches. One of my all-time favorite bottom feeders; you want at least seven. Panda garra are really cool too, though being from northern Myanmar they're right on the edge of SE Asia. Pentazona barbs are a really nice, small, not-too-active schooler worth looking into. So are harlequin and espei rasboras.

If you're doing a planted tank, we can give you some pointers on great plants from the region too. Good luck!

Thanks for the help I've tried the 2 female with one male before but it did not work out. Dwarf chain loaches have been on my list for a while but there £27 since covid for one in my area . And are Panda garra similar to red garra since I've kept one before and it did not get on with fish in the tank. I've never heard of Pentazona barbs before. They do look quite nice. How many would you recommend. I completely forgot about rasboras. I will consider getting a group of them I've done planted tanks before and in wondering what plants would you recommend for the tank.
also would a wild Betta work with the fish I am assuming no since Betta and gourami are related and all betas are different.

 

[Coryking]

I wouldnt combine halfbeaks with other surface dwelling fish like gourami, they are hard to feed, like not too strong flow ( same as gourami) but they dont do well with boisterous fish. They do best in a species only tank or with some pleco or corydoras.
30 gallon is too small for any barbs to be honest. Garras need a special setup in the tank, including the substrate and water flow and oxygenation, which the gourami or loaches wont appreciate.
30 gallon is not that large so pick 3 types of fish and stick with them.
I understand you have loaches now, one catfish and a three spotted gourami (as in three species) already, correct?
I think your bottom area is maxed out, so I would add two female spotted gourami and then you can go with a smaller school of rasboras, like 15 but not too small like chilli or the gourami will eat them. Harlequins will work I guess

I would also under no circumstance combine a bamboo shrimp and a gourami. Bamboo shrimp are static, sitting in a flow with their fans out, and the gourami are biters, they dont do well with snails and antennaes so I wouldnt risk the delicate fans. The shrimp would be harassed and stressed and die. Amanos might work with gourami, adult ones though.

Thanks for feedback. I've done research on halfbeak and gotten nowhere so thanks very much I will not do them. The tank is definitely not to small for any barb have you heard or Cherry barbs or dwarf gold barbs. The bottom area is nowhere maxed out the kuhli loaches are a nocturnal and are rather small and the wiptail is rather young at the moment and even at full size there will be plenty of room. And bamboo shrimp can be kept with gourami. Ever heard of pearl or sparkling. I would like to know if three spot can be kept with bamboo shrimp and not just no gourami can be kept with them since that is not true.

 

[WhistlingBadger]

Thanks for the help I've tried the 2 female with one male before but it did not work out. Dwarf chain loaches have been on my list for a while but there £27 since covid for one in my area . And are Panda garra similar to red garra since I've kept one before and it did not get on with fish in the tank. I've never heard of Pentazona barbs before. They do look quite nice. How many would you recommend. I completely forgot about rasboras. I will consider getting a group of them I've done planted tanks before and in wondering what plants would you recommend for the tank.
also would a wild Betta work with the fish I am assuming no since Betta and gourami are related and all betas are different.

I should say that all of the above advice is good if you've got generally neutral, soft-to-medium water. I see you're from England, where there is a wide range of water hardness. SE Asia fish tend to need soft water, so if you're in a hard water area you might have to rethink this whole plan.

Anyway...Why didn't the gouramis work? Aggression problems? I've never kept that particular species so I'm curious about your experience.

Wow, nevermind about the chain loaches! 27 pounds each? They're cool, but not THAT cool!

Panda garra are quite different from red garra. For one thing, they really don't seem to enjoy nibbling on people's toenails, though the young ones might land on your arm during water changes. I've kept them for years and never observed them paying the slightest attention to other species. They just munch on algae and mind their own business. Really cool fish. They do seem to prefer some current, but they are very adaptable. You'd want a school of five or so, as they are somewhat social.

Pentazona barbs look a lot like tiger barbs; their colors are even prettier in my opinion. But they are peaceful and rather shy. They like to hang out together, so you'd want five or ten of them. They also like some big plants or other cover to hide in.

I wouldn't do any bettas with the gouramis, especially if the gouramis have the slightest inclination toward aggression.

Whatever you decide, heed @Beastije's warning about over-stocking. We're throwing out a lot of possibilities, but (as I'm sure you're aware) you shouldn't do ALL of these in a 30 gallon! Aqadvisor.com, while far from perfect, is a really good place to start. Plug in your desired tank size, species, and numbers, and it will give you a decent idea of whether you're going to be overstocked, as well as any glaring compatibility issues.

Plants: It depends on your lighting and substrate. What do you have? Generally for a SE Asia tank it's hard to go wrong with crypts, crypts, and more crypts! For medium sized tanks like yours, you could try parva, wendtii, and balansae. Try a bunch of different kinds and see what works. They like a nice, deep substrate they can spread out in; they develop some amazing root systems for such a smallish plant. Blyxa japonica is a fun one to try, a little trickier than crypts, but look really cool if your conditions are right. For fast growers, vallisneria, temple plant (Hygrophila corymbosa) and ambulia are all easy and will help keep your water clean. For floaters, try dwarf water lettuce and floating fern (Salvinia natans). Asian water grass is a really cool floater too.

A nice piece of driftwood or two can give the tank a nice tropical vibe; Java fern and Java moss are classic attached to wood and stones.

 

[Coryking]

I should say that all of the above advice is good if you've got generally neutral, soft-to-medium water. I see you're from England, where there is a wide range of water hardness. SE Asia fish tend to need soft water, so if you're in a hard water area you might have to rethink this whole plan.

Anyway...Why didn't the gouramis work? Aggression problems? I've never kept that particular species so I'm curious about your experience.

Wow, nevermind about the chain loaches! 27 pounds each? They're cool, but not THAT cool!

Panda garra are quite different from red garra. For one thing, they really don't seem to enjoy nibbling on people's toenails, though the young ones might land on your arm during water changes. I've kept them for years and never observed them paying the slightest attention to other species. They just munch on algae and mind their own business. Really cool fish. They do seem to prefer some current, but they are very adaptable. You'd want a school of five or so, as they are somewhat social.

Pentazona barbs look a lot like tiger barbs; their colors are even prettier in my opinion. But they are peaceful and rather shy. They like to hang out together, so you'd want five or ten of them. They also like some big plants or other cover to hide in.

I wouldn't do any bettas with the gouramis, especially if the gouramis have the slightest inclination toward aggression.

Whatever you decide, heed @Beastije's warning about over-stocking. We're throwing out a lot of possibilities, but (as I'm sure you're aware) you shouldn't do ALL of these in a 30 gallon! Aqadvisor.com, while far from perfect, is a really good place to start. Plug in your desired tank size, species, and numbers, and it will give you a decent idea of whether you're going to be overstocked, as well as any glaring compatibility issues.

Plants: It depends on your lighting and substrate. What do you have? Generally for a SE Asia tank it's hard to go wrong with crypts, crypts, and more crypts! For medium sized tanks like yours, you could try parva, wendtii, and balansae. Try a bunch of different kinds and see what works. They like a nice, deep substrate they can spread out in; they develop some amazing root systems for such a smallish plant. Blyxa japonica is a fun one to try, a little trickier than crypts, but look really cool if your conditions are right. For fast growers, vallisneria, temple plant (Hygrophila corymbosa) and ambulia are all easy and will help keep your water clean. For floaters, try dwarf water lettuce and floating fern (Salvinia natans). Asian water grass is a really cool floater too.

A nice piece of driftwood or two can give the tank a nice tropical vibe; Java fern and Java moss are classic attached to wood and stones.

Thanks for replying again. I have no clue why the gourami did not get along. The three spot I have now was just picked on by the other ones. I've never heard of anything like it before I never kept three spots before that. I did know they can be very aggressive or very passive. I separated them after a few days took the two aggressive ones back and kept the one I have now. well before covid Dwarf chain was a fish I always wanted but they were £15 per fish in my area when I started consider saving up for 6 of them covid hit and now there £27 per. Panda garra do seem quite nice. How big do the average get and are the safe with glass cats. I really did not check that glass cats are from southeast Asia if I knew I would have got some as soon as I came up with the idea. I may get Pentazona barbs but I've been here and there and never once seen them. I did think so about Bettas considering they are related but I just wanted to check. Don't worry about over stocking I'm still have not even considered the plants. Once im ready I'll pick two species of schooling or shoaling fish and maybe a bottom dweller and stick to that. Im 90% sure I will get glass cats. Do you know of any other bottom dewelers or gobies I'm assuming most will not work with my gourami since they are rather small. Thanks for the information about plants I had no clue about what ones to do for the tank all I knew was not doing Amazon swords. I would say the lighting is medium. Do you have any tips about scaping a naturalish style. I just want it the scape to be naturalish I dont mind if plants are not from there. Thanks again for the help everyone on this site is so informative and friendly.

 

[Essjay]

I should say that all of the above advice is good if you've got generally neutral, soft-to-medium water. I see you're from England, where there is a wide range of water hardness. SE Asia fish tend to need soft water, so if you're in a hard water area you might have to rethink this whole plan.

Can I suggest you look on your water company's website for hardness. Ignore any descriptive words as they can be misleading; look for a number and the unit of measurement as there are several they could use. Post a screenshot if they list several units.
If you can't find the page, tell us the name of the water company.

Once we have the hardness (GH) we'll be better able to suggest fish which match your water.

 

[Coryking]

The water company is saying 305ppm for GH. If need be I can buy a GH test they have some In the sale at my LFS. My PH is 7.2 last I checked but that was a good or so month ago. Thanks very much for the help

 

[Essjay]

That is very hard water. It's too hard for most of the fish mentioned so far. We have members who also have very hard water and they should be able to give you some suggestions.

Fish keeping uses two GH units, ppm and dH. Your 305 ppm converts to 17 dH. Fish profiles will use one or other of those units. Seriously Fish is just about the best website for researching fish.

 

[Coryking]

That is very hard water. It's too hard for most of the fish mentioned so far. We have members who also have very hard water and they should be able to give you some suggestions.

Fish keeping uses two GH units, ppm and dH. Your 305 ppm converts to 17 dH. Fish profiles will use one or other of those units. Seriously Fish is just about the best website for researching fish.

I will get a GH test because I'm sure that the water company is wrong about GH. Thanks very much for the help.

 

[Wills]

I will get a GH test because I'm sure that the water company is wrong about GH. Thanks very much for the help.

The good news is, if you have hard water like that and you want to do a South East Asian biotope - check out Lake Inle species, thick lipped gourami (the red ones are very nice), rummy nose rasboras, emerald rasboras and galaxy rasboras, rosy loaches, inle loaches. Really nice biotope from a hardwater habbitat

Some may tell you to rehome your current fish because of the hardness but personally I wont as if you take them back to your LFS odds are they will still be living in hardwater when they are rehomed. You can look at softening your water with an RO machine or rainwater but its not without risks.

Wills

 

[Coryking]

The good news is, if you have hard water like that and you want to do a South East Asian biotope - check out Lake Inle species, thick lipped gourami (the red ones are very nice), rummy nose rasboras, emerald rasboras and galaxy rasboras, rosy loaches, inle loaches. Really nice biotope from a hardwater habbitat

Some may tell you to rehome your current fish because of the hardness but personally I wont as if you take them back to your LFS odds are they will still be living in hardwater when they are rehomed. You can look at softening your water with an RO machine or rainwater but its not without risks.

Wills

Thanks for the feedback. I am going to get a GH test next time I go to my LFS. If it does turn out to be hard water. How many of those loaches would you recommend and are there any gobies, catfish or any other bottom dewelers fish from southeast Asian that can live in hard water. Many thanks.