Help With Plant Growth / Lighting

[MarkinFrance]

Hello,
 
I've a Juwel 450 aquarium....Up to until about 6 months ago I have great plant growth.... so I changed all my lighting tubes to 2 x nature and 2 x day.... since then the plants have not recovered, in fact they've deteriorated  
I do have a brown algae starting to grow now. Before when the aquarium's plants were flourishing I did have a rapid growing fine algae, which was a bit of a nuisance, but even this has died or "mutated".
 
I have looked at uprating to LED lighting, but it's all a bit new for me! I was impressed by an Ehiem power LED upgrade on Juwel's existing light fittings until I saw the price
 
Any help and advice would be appreciated please?
 
Thank you,
 
Mark

 

[boshk]

I'm surprised actually that your plants deteriorated, I was advised to change my tubes too from 2x Day to 1x Nature and Colour.
 
I have a Juwel 125 tank.
 
From their website, your 450 has 4x Day T5 54W 1200mm tubes, giving 8000K or 3800lumen each.
 
When you changed to 2x Nature T5 54W 1200mm, they are 4100K and 4000lumen each, giving more green......
That actually more lumen over your surface area.
 
I'm sure the experienced guys will correct me or give better advise.

 

[MarkinFrance]

Hi,
 
I hope someone can help.... I changed the original 4 x 54watt Day tubes after the plants stated to die back.... you can see from my profile picture how they used to look. I bought a new Amazon Sword plant as the others died off, but this one is dying too under 2 x nature and 2 x day 54watt tubes on for about 12 plus hours a day.
 
Mark

 

[StevenF]

 
 
do have a brown algae starting to grow now. Before when the aquarium's plants were flourishing I did have a rapid growing fine algae, which was a bit of a nuisance, but even this has died or "mutated".

I don't think lighting is your issue.   but you can confirm that by going back to you old lighting (if you still have the bulbs).  I think you issue might be water chemistry.  High phosphate levels can stop or slow plant growth and encourage an algae bloom.  The other possibility might be the micro nutrients in the water may be depleted.  I would suggest doing a very large water change and getting a phosphate test kit.  The would lower your phosphates and might replenish micro nutrients.  If you had stable water chemistry your algae shouldn't die or mutate and your plant growth should have been stable. 

 

[MarkinFrance]

Cheers... I had consider a large volume water change, but wasn't sure why I should. I will order a phosphate test kit.

 

[Byron]

A change in lighting can affect plants, as can a change in nutrients and parameters.  It would help to have more data, for example, are you running diffused CO2, what nutrient supplementation are you using, parameters, etc.  All of this is balanced at some level, and changing one component can affect the balance.
 
Before spending money on a phosphate kit, can you find out the phosphates in your source water (tap water presumably)?
 
Byron.

 

[MarkinFrance]

Hello Byron,
I don't use any CO2 and am not using any supplements....! In all the years I've kept tropicals I've never had any problems with plant growth....nor any serious problems with fish except one which constipated (the Angel in the picture) which recovered after a dose of epson salts. I guess I've been lucky.
My ph is about 7 and my nitrates, nitrites and ammonia levels are virtually zero.
The water is tap water and I've no idea what the phosphate level in it is.... It's just something we don't get any info on here in the middle of France.
Years ago I'd do a bi-annual complete clean out and I'm considering doing one now..... I know you can't say yes or no as you've no data to go on, but would it do any harm?
Mark

 

[Byron]

I'm afraid it will be difficult for anyone to offer constructive advice without knowing all the data of your system.  However, this tank is roughly the same size as my 115g, at 5 feet in length and 2 feet depth.  I have two 48-inch T8 tubes over this tank, one 6500K and one 5000K.  This is moderate lighting.  If I were to move up I would need CO2 or I would have algae soup.  I have the lighting on for a max of 8 hours daily now, to keep brush algae in check [and I am wondering, the "brown algae" you mention, this is how many describe a form of brush algae...any idea?].  I did have two 48-inch T5 6500K tubes over this tank for about a week, but it was too bright and they went back.
 
Byron.

 

[MarkinFrance]

Hi,
Looking at pictures.... I think I had brush algae, but there used to be thread algae! I found out a water report and it tells me little other than the ph and nitrate levels. 
The Juwel T5 tubes are 2 x 54W Nature @ 4100K each and 2 x 54W day @ 8000K each....Are you saying that they're too bright without CO2? Which leads to another question altogether and that's what sort of CO2 set up would I require for a 4500 litre aquarium.
Thank you for your help and patience.
M.

 

[Byron]

Hi,
Looking at pictures.... I think I had brush algae, but there used to be thread algae! I found out a water report and it tells me little other than the ph and nitrate levels. 
The Juwel T5 tubes are 2 x 54W Nature @ 4100K each and 2 x 54W day @ 8000K each....Are you saying that they're too bright without CO2? Which leads to another question altogether and that's what sort of CO2 set up would I require for a 4500 litre aquarium.
Thank you for your help and patience.
M.

 
These seem to be the 4-foot (approx 122 cm) length tubes if they are 54w, and that is what I had when I had two over my 115g tank.  With four, you are doubling things and yes, in my view without diffused CO2 and daily nutrient supplementation, you will have problems with the plants and algae.  I'll attach a photo of what my 115g has looked like at various stages over the past several years so you can compare.  This is with two T8 tubes, so about 1/3 the light intensity you now have (two T5 tubes are roughly the same intensity as 3 T8 tubes of the same type and length), no CO2, and minimal fertilization.
 
I have never bothered with CO2 as it was expensive and added another major factor into the balance, and my aim has been tanks of fish in which I have some plants rather than plant tanks without fish or with some fish, so my emphasis has been different.  I will leave it for the high-tech members to suggest CO2 units.  Another thought...can you somehow disconnect two of the four tubes so only two light?
 
Byron.

 

[MarkinFrance]

OK.... My algae problem has returned and rapidly increasing....now I've an algae which envelopes the plants, in effect mummifying them! also trapping small air bubbles on the plants and the stones.... The only major difference with my water is that the ph has risen from neutral to 8.0. The fish are healthy.
 
I did a 30% water change 10 days ago and at the same time removed 90% of the algae, but It's returned with vengeance now.
 
I'm considering a complete water change, removal of all plants and most of the gravel in order to get on top of this problem.
 
Advice more than welcome.
 
M.

 

[MarkinFrance]

Update... have ID'd the algae as Blue Green Algae..... advice sought,
 
Thank you. 
 
M.

 

[Byron]

"Blue green algae" is cyanobacteria, not a true algae but a photosynthetic bacteria.  Cyanobacteria is caused by organics in the presence of light.  The only safe and effective way to deal with it is to reduce the organics, along with the light intensity.  However, light alone is not the cause and many make the mistake of doing "black-outs" only to have the cyano return.  The organics must be reduced as well.
 
The lighting over this tank is very intense, so reducing that is one issue.  Organics occur from fish load, overfeeding, insufficient water changes, dirty filters, dirty substrate.
 
Byron.

 

[StevenF]

We really need to know what your GH and Kh values are.  If these are too low you probably don't have enough nutrients in your tap water to support plants.  If that happens Algae will take over..  Also look on line for your utility water  quality report and post a link to it.  To me this is looking like a Trace or micro nutrient depletion issue.  If lighting is OK your plants shouldn't die.  However if your water is depleted in nutrients your plants will die.