Help With Fishless Cycle

[Alm0stAwesome]

Hi there, I posted this question under the beginners cycling section but I'm not sure if it is getting watched much anymore, sorry for the repost.

I started cycling by just adding fish food but two days later I got some ammonia and added that to a concentration of 5ppm. It then dropped pretty quickly to 0.5ppm over 24 hours but has stayed there for three days now. Is this because the old food is still in the tank and stopping it from reaching 0? Should I add more ammonia? Should I remove the old fish food? Also, and it probably makes no difference but the tank was set up and running with filter aid being added for about 5 days before I added the fish food.

I'm working under the assumption that 1ppm = 1mg/L, is this correct?

Thanks!

 

[Prime Ordeal]

As you now have ammonia, remove the fish food. Then check your pH, if it is too low it will stall the cycle (and could be why you're stuck at 0.5ppm ammonia). If it is too low you'll need to boost it back up by dosing with bicarbonate of soda or a water change, depending upon your tap waters parameters (take a reading of the tap water pH when it's been sitting out for 24 hours in a cup). Let us know the readings and we'll tell you what to do next.

At the minute concentrations we're dealing with, i.e. under 10ppm, yes 1ppm = 1mg/L

 

[Alm0stAwesome]

Ok will go remove the food now. Funny you mention pH because I have been thinking it's low, at 6.8. I have checked my pH out of the tap and it's 6.8 there too but I didn't leave it for 24 hours. Thanks for the help!

Sorry should have said that I checked the pH of my tap water previously and it was 6.8 - I've put some in a cup on the side which I'll check again.

 

[Prime Ordeal]

Chances are that if it's 6.8 out of the tap and 6.8 in the tank, then it' going to be 6.8 when left for 24hours but it wouldn't harm to check anyway.

The pH could be higher but at 6.8 should not be causing the cycle to stall so it's probably that you have the food in there and the rate of ammonia production, at least for now, equals the rate of uptake, so it stays where it is. There are several things you can do to help the cycle along if you haven't already.
1. Up the temperature to 30C.
2. Add bicarb of soda to get the pH up to about 8. Add a teaspoon at a time to see what effect it has on pH after an hour, then dose accordingly to get it to 8.
3. Ensure that the tank is well aerated either from the outflow of the filter agitating the surface and/or using an air stone.

 

[Alm0stAwesome]

Great thanks for the advice, my temperature is only at 22/23 right now so probably needed to go up anyway. I'll try out the bicarbonate as well (if I have some). As far as aeration goes I've already got an air stone and my filter outflow is pointing at the surface so I think I'm covered there. With the food removed I'll hopefully see a drop in ammonia tomorrow, I'll let you know how I get on

 

[OldMan47]

Bicarb is common baking soda. Almost any kitchen will have some in it if people in that home ever cook food from scratch.

 

[Alm0stAwesome]

Hi All,

Just thought I would update you on how I'm getting on. Yesterday morning the ammonia levels had dropped to very nearly 0. My husband and I couldn't decide exactly what the reading said but it was close! So I dosed the tank again and checked my levels again in the evening - they were as expected at 5ppm. Advice varies on what concentration I should be using should I keep raising it to 5ppm or just 3ppm?

All of the old food is now removed, the temperature is up to 26 C (I'm going to raise it again I was just worried about stressing out my little heater )and my aeration is good. As a result of removing the old food I ended up doing a small 5L water change (in a 48L tank) as well. I know many think that water changes are good during cycling but Im guessing I'm not at that stage yet since my No2 and No3 are both still 0?

I haven't added any baking soda as yet because mine was out of date lol - probably doesn't matter if I'm not making a cake but hey! I'll get some and add it in

I'm guessing that I only need to try bumping the pH up for cycling and that my 6.8 will be fine for my fish when it's running? I'm going to stock with guppies and corys. I'd like to get bogwood for the tank but seeing as my pH is on the lower side, is this advisable?

You guys are brilliant and sorry for the constant questions!

 

[Prime Ordeal]

Sounds like it's all going well.

Don't dose to over 4ppm (personally I don't dose above 1ppm). Ammonia inhibits the nitrite-eating bacteria at any concentration and so the more ammonia you use the longer your cycle will be.

Make sure the bicarb you buy is just that, pure bicarbonate of soda (sodium bicarbonate) and no other additives. when you add the bicarb do it gradually. Add 1tsp and see what effect it has on the pH (after a few hours), then dose up the extra to get you to pH 8ish in small amounts because the bacteria are sensitive to sudden pH swings and you may stall the cycle if you dose it all in one go.

Yes, once the cycle is complete you will do a big water change to get rid of the nitrate and that will return your pH to tap water level, i.e. 6.8. And that is quite low so adding bogwood would be a little risky because it will take it down even further. Don't put any in while you're cycling.

 

[CezzaXV]

Make sure the bicarb you buy is just that, pure bicarbonate of soda (sodium bicarbonate) and no other additives. when you add the bicarb do it gradually. Add 1tsp and see what effect it has on the pH (after a few hours), then dose up the extra to get you to pH 8ish in small amounts because the bacteria are sensitive to sudden pH swings and you may stall the cycle if you dose it all in one go.

1tsp is a lot to start off with. The OP doesn't say how big their tank is but when I was cycling my 60L it only took a third of a teaspoon to get my pH up to a suitable level.

 

[Prime Ordeal]

Make sure the bicarb you buy is just that, pure bicarbonate of soda (sodium bicarbonate) and no other additives. when you add the bicarb do it gradually. Add 1tsp and see what effect it has on the pH (after a few hours), then dose up the extra to get you to pH 8ish in small amounts because the bacteria are sensitive to sudden pH swings and you may stall the cycle if you dose it all in one go.

1tsp is a lot to start off with. The OP doesn't say how big their tank is but when I was cycling my 60L it only took a third of a teaspoon to get my pH up to a suitable level.

Quite true. For some reason I had it in my head that this was a 240l tank!

 

[Alm0stAwesome]

I wish! No just a wee 48L right now - I'd love to get a nice big corner tank but I don't have £600 sitting around at the moment - maybe one day!

Change in amount of bicarb noted

 

[CezzaXV]

I wish! No just a wee 48L right now - I'd love to get a nice big corner tank but I don't have £600 sitting around at the moment - maybe one day!

Change in amount of bicarb noted

No need to splash out that much on a tank. You can get some great second hand bargains! That's what I'm planning to do when my room is redecorated and I have space for a bigger tank. I'm also planning on selling my current 60L when that happens - if I can get half what I paid for it new I'll be thrilled.

 

[Alm0stAwesome]

I can't believe I never thought of getting a second hand one

Well maybe there is a chance of a bigger tank in the near future after all, however, hubby is barely tolerating this hobby at the moment, he really enjoys having the fish but not my obsession with water testing and research haha. Plus I've been dragging him around every fish shop in the local area doing reconnaissance on where we are going to get our fish from.

At any rate I need to get this tank well established before I start thinking about another one! I'm having a great time learning at the moment so no need for a change just yet

 

[HayzH]

Make sure the bicarb you buy is just that, pure bicarbonate of soda (sodium bicarbonate) and no other additives. when you add the bicarb do it gradually. Add 1tsp and see what effect it has on the pH (after a few hours), then dose up the extra to get you to pH 8ish in small amounts because the bacteria are sensitive to sudden pH swings and you may stall the cycle if you dose it all in one go.

1tsp is a lot to start off with. The OP doesn't say how big their tank is but when I was cycling my 60L it only took a third of a teaspoon to get my pH up to a suitable level.

my 70L took 2 tsp to get up to at least 8.0

 

[Prime Ordeal]

Make sure the bicarb you buy is just that, pure bicarbonate of soda (sodium bicarbonate) and no other additives. when you add the bicarb do it gradually. Add 1tsp and see what effect it has on the pH (after a few hours), then dose up the extra to get you to pH 8ish in small amounts because the bacteria are sensitive to sudden pH swings and you may stall the cycle if you dose it all in one go.

1tsp is a lot to start off with. The OP doesn't say how big their tank is but when I was cycling my 60L it only took a third of a teaspoon to get my pH up to a suitable level.

my 70L took 2 tsp to get up to at least 8.0

It'll vary depending upon the starting level of KH in the tank and the tank size.