Help - I'm Killing My Danios Off

[VillaGirl75]

Request Help

Tank size: Rio 125
pH: 7
ammonia: ?
nitrite: 0
nitrate: 0
kH: 80
gH: 60
tank temp:24

Fish Symptoms (include full description including lesion, color, location, fish behavior): Zebra Danios some of them get severe curvature of the spine which I've heard happens when they get old. Others are having problems presumably with swim bladder - back end starts rising and knocking them off balance, then finally they end up either nose down or rolling on side

Volume and Frequency of water changes: every 4 weeks

Chemical Additives or Media in your tank: put pH buffer in and aquarium salt with water changes

Tank inhabitants: 2 Plecies, about 15cm long, originally 13 zebra danios now down to 7. Nothing else - don't want to add until I sort out this problem

Recent additions to your tank (living or decoration): nothing - all have been in from start - have lots of rock and artificial plants and the floor is sand which we are definitely planning to change to gravel as it's so hard to clean properly.

Exposure to chemicals: not sure what this means

We got the tank 18 months ago. Had 5 danios which were previously in a Biorb. Bought 4 platty's and 2 plecies and introduced over about 3 month period.
Planned to get more but after having some babies, three (+ fry) died. The last one lasted about 2 months after the previous one died and he looked like all his scales had been shredded off him and his body had gone really swollen. We didn't get any more fish then because we realised there must be a problem but the water tests always seem ok. Now the danios are dying and if this is happening there must be a serious problem because they are supposed to be really tough. I'm not an experienced fish owner at all and I really don't know where to start. In the past I have had guaramis but they also died. I know I must be doing something wrong and I'd really appreciate some advice because I had being responsible for these fish dying.

 

[rocknurworld2006]

Request Help

Tank size: Rio 125
pH: 7
ammonia: ?
nitrite: 0
nitrate: 0
kH: 80
gH: 60
tank temp:24

Fish Symptoms (include full description including lesion, color, location, fish behavior): Zebra Danios some of them get severe curvature of the spine which I've heard happens when they get old. Others are having problems presumably with swim bladder - back end starts rising and knocking them off balance, then finally they end up either nose down or rolling on side

Volume and Frequency of water changes: every 4 weeks

Chemical Additives or Media in your tank: put pH buffer in and aquarium salt with water changes

Tank inhabitants: 2 Plecies, about 15cm long, originally 13 zebra danios now down to 7. Nothing else - don't want to add until I sort out this problem

Recent additions to your tank (living or decoration): nothing - all have been in from start - have lots of rock and artificial plants and the floor is sand which we are definitely planning to change to gravel as it's so hard to clean properly.

Exposure to chemicals: not sure what this means

We got the tank 18 months ago. Had 5 danios which were previously in a Biorb. Bought 4 platty's and 2 plecies and introduced over about 3 month period.
Planned to get more but after having some babies, three (+ fry) died. The last one lasted about 2 months after the previous one died and he looked like all his scales had been shredded off him and his body had gone really swollen. We didn't get any more fish then because we realised there must be a problem but the water tests always seem ok. Now the danios are dying and if this is happening there must be a serious problem because they are supposed to be really tough. I'm not an experienced fish owner at all and I really don't know where to start. In the past I have had guaramis but they also died. I know I must be doing something wrong and I'd really appreciate some advice because I had being responsible for these fish dying.

need to know ammonia reading?
and i doubt ur nitrate is 0

whats it out f the tap?

Request Help

Tank size: Rio 125
pH: 7
ammonia: ?
nitrite: 0
nitrate: 0
kH: 80
gH: 60
tank temp:24

Fish Symptoms (include full description including lesion, color, location, fish behavior): Zebra Danios some of them get severe curvature of the spine which I've heard happens when they get old. Others are having problems presumably with swim bladder - back end starts rising and knocking them off balance, then finally they end up either nose down or rolling on side

Volume and Frequency of water changes: every 4 weeks

Chemical Additives or Media in your tank: put pH buffer in and aquarium salt with water changes

Tank inhabitants: 2 Plecies, about 15cm long, originally 13 zebra danios now down to 7. Nothing else - don't want to add until I sort out this problem

Recent additions to your tank (living or decoration): nothing - all have been in from start - have lots of rock and artificial plants and the floor is sand which we are definitely planning to change to gravel as it's so hard to clean properly.

Exposure to chemicals: not sure what this means

We got the tank 18 months ago. Had 5 danios which were previously in a Biorb. Bought 4 platty's and 2 plecies and introduced over about 3 month period.
Planned to get more but after having some babies, three (+ fry) died. The last one lasted about 2 months after the previous one died and he looked like all his scales had been shredded off him and his body had gone really swollen. We didn't get any more fish then because we realised there must be a problem but the water tests always seem ok. Now the danios are dying and if this is happening there must be a serious problem because they are supposed to be really tough. I'm not an experienced fish owner at all and I really don't know where to start. In the past I have had guaramis but they also died. I know I must be doing something wrong and I'd really appreciate some advice because I had being responsible for these fish dying.

need to know ammonia reading?
and i doubt ur nitrate is 0

whats it out f the tap?

 

[minxfishy]

Im going to assume that you didnt fishless cycle the tank before adding the original fish (by using a source of ammonia), so the earliest fish you had may well have died thru ammonia and nitrIte poisoning, which is common in a newly set up tank when using fish to cycle with. This would have been the advice you were given by the shop, which is normal, but unfortunately not the best way to do things.

However, 18 months down the line your still having problems, so I think you have a problem with water quality. You have no ammonia test result, do you have a testing kit which tests for this? Are these readings from test strips or liquid based tests?

The fish with the scales missing and swollen sounds like it could have been dropsy, but the others with the bent spines sounds like either old age, fish tb, bacterial infection or could just be from the original ammonia/nitrIte poisoning.

You state your water changes are 4 weekly, you really should be doing water changes at least once a week, roughly 30% with dechlorinated water, this keeps the nitrAte levels at a reasonable level for fish. However you stats say you have no nitrAte, which unless you have a heavily planted tank is very unusual in a cycled tank. How often do you clean the filter media (sponges) and how do you clean them?

Exposure to chemicals means, have you added any medication to the tank, what products do you use for dechlorinating the water when you do a water change?

 

[Athena]

Hi - can I ask what type of test kit you are using? Is it the paper strips or a liquid test kit? The strips are not very accurate so a liquid test kit would give a much more reliable reading - and you really need one that gives the ammonia reading as that is very important. It's also very unusual to have a nitrate reading of 0!

As for some of the symptoms you describe - the bloating and scaleless appearance could have been dropsy. You can usually tell if it's dropsy if you look at the fish from above and can clearly see the scales sticking way out from the body - along with that "about to explode" look of the body.

With the ones who were swimming off balance, nose down etc - yes, it could have been swimbladder disorder or a fungal infection caused by stress from bad water conditions.

Instead of doing water changes once every 4 weeks, try doing them at least once a week, twice if possible. A weekly change of about 25% or twice weekly of about 15% is all you need do and that will help keep your tank water in tip top condition and reduce chances of illnesses and deaths. Remember, also, to do a gravel vacuum at least once a month, too, along with a partial clean of the filter sponges (don't over clean these, just a light slooshing about in a small tub of tank water to remove excess debris).


Regards - Athena

 

[Cdarmychi]

And for the tests that you do have...how old are they? Older tests do expire, and start to give false readings. (And I have more plants then I can handle,....and I cant even get a 0 nitrate....so Im thinking that you have a) the strip tests that are very inaccurate, or b) havent mastered the color coding yet (which I had problems with at first, considering Im colour blind lol).

And no one can really help much until we have a ammonia reading...

 

[VillaGirl75]

And for the tests that you do have...how old are they? Older tests do expire, and start to give false readings. (And I have more plants then I can handle,....and I cant even get a 0 nitrate....so Im thinking that you have a) the strip tests that are very inaccurate, or b) havent mastered the color coding yet (which I had problems with at first, considering Im colour blind lol).

And no one can really help much until we have a ammonia reading...

Thank you for all the helpful comments so far - it makes me realise just how little I know.

• I am using testing strips which do sound pretty inaccurate from what everyone else has been saying.
• Water changes - shop recommended every 4 weeks which is obviously not very good.
• We started the tank with danios and 'cycle' so you could be right about stressed fish in the beginning.

I think my first job is to go and buy some liquid testing kits, learn how to do nitrate and nitrite tests properly and find out my ammonia levels.

If I do have parasites what is the best way to get rid of them?

 

[Athena]

Hi - it's very difficult to suggest a particular treatment at the moment because we don't know 100% what the problem is as you appear to have varying symptoms - there could be a mixture of diseases going on in your tank. To give you an idea of the vast array of diseases and treatments available, here is a link to the Waterlife range of treatments - I use these, and I know many other on here recommend their use.

http/www.waterlife.co.uk/waterlife/aqudistr.htm

(copy and paste if link doesn't work).

I think maybe you should start by doing a 50% water change, then when you have your new liquid test kit, test all the ranges and then you'll know if you need to do a further water change (e.g. if ammonia/nitrite levels are high). It will just be a case of doing partial daily changes until you get a clear reading on all the tests (apart from nitrate as most tanks don't have a 0 reading for nitrate anyway).

Whilst all this is going on, keep an avid eye on all your fish and note down any strange behaviour or physical symptoms - things to look out for are flicking or scraping, any spots or lesions, sunken/bloated bellies, raised scales, fin rot, abnormal swimming, change in normal colouration etc.

It's always a good idea to have a few of those treatments to-hand, so that at the first sign of any problem you can treat immediately and that will often prevent it escalating and leading to death of your fish. Myxazin is excellent for treating a variety of bacterial infections, Octozin is for internal parasitic infestation (incl. dropsy), Protozin is great for whitespot and other fungal infections. It's important to measure the correct dose (there is a handy measuring cap provided) as overdosing on meds can be fatal to fish.

Let us know how you get on with it all!

Regards - Athena

 

[VillaGirl75]

Thanks Athena. That is exactly the sort of step by step advice I really wanted / needed. I have the liquid testing kit now so I shall follow your advice with a 50/50 water change and hopefully before too long I can enjoy the fish in the samw way all of you guys do.

I shall check out that link as well.

I'll keep you posted - thanks to everyone! x

 

[Tokis-Phoenix]

The spinal curvature is most likely fish TB, this is incurable and quite infectious, so my advice would be to euthanise any fish which display spinal curvature. Fish TB breaks down the tissues of the fishes body, causing the fishes body to become distorted- it can sometimes cause very internal bacterial like symptoms (fish afflicted with fish tb can get kidney failure causing dropsy, while secondary bacterial infections are not uncommon on fish afflicted with fish tb).
However for now i think it would be best to assume that the tank has both fish tb and internal bacteria afflicting the fish, and so the best course of action would be to set about treating the tank with an anti internal bacterial medication, while euthanising any fish which show symptoms of spinal curvature.

 

[VillaGirl75]

Just to let everyone who has kindly helped me know that I think I may have uncovered the problem -

Water tests all ok - amonia, nitrate, nitrate and pH all at the recommended amounts.
Was doing a 50/50 water change and thought that the water felt very warm. Tank Thermometer said 24 degrees ©. Got the thermometer from the bathroom - 38 degrees ©!
I though my heater was on the blink because the tank thermometer was reading so low so I was turning the heater up. This has been happening over several months. I guess they must have been getting very stressed by the increase in temperature which was making them susceptable to parasites, infections etc.

I am really hopeful this could be the cause of most of the problems. We are going to euthanise the fish with the curved spine which people have suggested may be fish TB and tomorrow I shall get some of the treatments Anthea recommended. We are going to remove the sand in the bottom of the tank and replace with gravel (sand is almost impossible to clean we have found)

Then give it a month and we may be in a position to finally get some new fish (but only a couple at a time - I know!)

THANK YOU ALL!

 

[Athena]

Hi - thanks for filling us in. Gosh, yes, that could have been a definite stress factor then. Glad you sussed out what the problem was so that you're now back on track to getting normal conditions in your tank.

I wonder what caused the tank thermometer to stop working properly? Did your fish ever bump against it causing it to knock against the tank glass? I have a couple of Convicts who purposely do this to get my attention when they want feeding! So I have to keep a regular eye on the thermometer in that tank. Or have you ever used a magnetic glass cleaner near yours?

Oh well - hopefully things will take a turn for the better now. Keep up those weekly water changes and your fish should be much happier and healthier.

All the best - Athena