Help For A New Fish Keeper

[jason8888]

First of all I am very glad I found this community and thanks for the help I know ill receive
 
. Ok heres my situation I bought a 10 gallon aquarium kit for my son and did what the local pet store told me to do. Which is to set the aquarium up let it run for 48 hours and then I could add the small frog my son wanted. I think it was a african clawed frog . I added clorine drops they told me to but it was called tetra easy balance which now ive discovered is some sort of maintainer. The store clerk told me to add the drops when i put the tap water in. so I did and let the water run for 2 days and all semmed well.
so Me and my son went on the 3rd day to pick up his little frog. Well the next morning the little guy was dead after we did what the clerk told us and getting him used to to the new tank by floating the bag for 20 minutes. I couldnt figure out what happened so I called the pet store back and they told me to bring him, and a seperate bag of water so they could test it for me ( which they charged me for, I thought it should of been free at this point ). all the tests were fine except the ammonia was maxed out on her test and she told me to buy Prime  and add it to the tank and to also buy 2 red tetras to help cycle the tank so I did. So for this is the 3rd day ive had them and the water clouded up pretty bad the second day I had them.
So I called the pet store and they advised me to change half the water so I did. My problem is now that ive discovered this wonderful site it seems everything they told me has been wrong and to just sell me stuff. I Have ordered the API master test kit but it wont be here till next thursday and the closest large aquarium store is a hour away and with my job its hard to make it there because I work nights. I bought at walmart a seachem monitor pack that monitors ammonia and PH but ive now read that they arent worth buying. What can I do at this point to try and keep my sons 2 little fish alive. I really dont like that local fish store and dont want to ever do business there again if i can help it. Will my sons fish be ok till thursday until I can check the water for myself or what should I do until then ?

 

[attibones]

You will need to do plenty of water changes. I would do two a day, about forty or fifty percent of the water. If your water is cloudy, you may have a bacterial bloom (a good thing!). The water changes will help with the ammonia. If you can, take the fish back as they'll be going through a lot. When you get the test kit, you'll want to test the water immediately and have a look at the fish-in cycling thread in this section.

 

[TallTree01]

I suggest you take a look at the ' very important document ' in my signature. It will take you to the beginners resource center. Read up on those articles particularly the fish in cycling part.

Atti has given you good instructions but I would do 80% water changes instead of 50%.

 

[jason8888]

Ok asked the local store about taking the fish back and they told me it was against their store policy. Granted this is a small mom and pop shop not a chain store. So I will deffinetly be doing minimum 40 percent water changes daily till i get my kit. I have 2 different drops one is tetra easy balance and the other is prime which is the best for adding to the water to remove chlorine ? the tetra one says its a weekly maintainer.

 

[attibones]

Just use the prime. The tetra stuff isn't going to do what the prime can do, but I'm not sure what effects it has on the cycling process. If you can do more than 40%, do so. I suggest 40-50 twice a day simply because it seems to be less stressful for the fish and you are removing the same amount of water (and ammonia) as you would an 80 percent change. However, in this situation, perhaps going bigger is better.

Also, when you get your test kit, be sure to test your tap water (or well water or whatever) for any traces of ammonia and nitrate, as this will effect your tank readings.

 

[jason8888]

Just use the prime. The tetra stuff isn't going to do what the prime can do, but I'm not sure what effects it has on the cycling process. If you can do more than 40%, do so. I suggest 40-50 twice a day simply because it seems to be less stressful for the fish and you are removing the same amount of water (and ammonia) as you would an 80 percent change. However, in this situation, perhaps going bigger is better.

Also, when you get your test kit, be sure to test your tap water (or well water or whatever) for any traces of ammonia and nitrate, as this will effect your tank readings.

O.K will do 2 changes daily. also my seachem Ph monitor is showing around 8.5 but im not sure how accurate is ive read lots of bad stuff about them after I bought it lol. should I be worried about this at this stage ?

 

[b3cca]

I think that tetra easy balance is mainly for reducing nitrates amongst other things, I got a bottle free when I bought a tank but never used it. No need as you will not have any nitrates until it's cycled and we lower nitrates by partial water changes.
Apart from a using a good de-chlorinator like prime, there is no need to start throwing any other chemicals in there.
 
 
PH of 8.5 would not be ideal for tetras who prefer more neutral to acidic water,  no idea what PH a frog needs but may be worth you checking.
you could check with your local water authority what your tap water stats are for hardness, PH, chlorine etc and see if that is compatible for an aquatic frog. 
 
I got told pretty much the same thing from my local LFS when I first started, you are basically just starting out a fish in cycle - it is hard work and often needs multiple partial water changes and constant  testing for ammonia and nitrite.
As i say it is a total pain and a lot of work to keep those fish alive through a cycle but it can be done if you keep on top of things

 

[jason8888]

I think that tetra easy balance is mainly for reducing nitrates amongst other things, I got a bottle free when I bought a tank but never used it. No need as you will not have any nitrates until it's cycled and we lower nitrates by partial water changes.
Apart from a using a good de-chlorinator like prime, there is no need to start throwing any other chemicals in there.
 
 
PH of 8.5 would not be ideal for tetras who prefer more neutral to acidic water,  no idea what PH a frog needs but may be worth you checking.
you could check with your local water authority what your tap water stats are for hardness, PH, chlorine etc and see if that is compatible for an aquatic frog. 
 
I got told pretty much the same thing from my local LFS when I first started, you are basically just starting out a fish in cycle - it is hard work and often needs multiple partial water changes and constant  testing for ammonia and nitrite.
As i say it is a total pain and a lot of work to keep those fish alive through a cycle but it can be done if you keep on top of things

thanks for the help. We decided to stick with the fish for a while and get a bigger aquarium to move them into in the future. So should I try to bring the PH down now after I get my kit and how do you do this ?

 

[b3cca]

Easiest way would just buy fish that are best suited to your tap water conditions in the first place.
I'm no expert but from I've read here, trying to change PH and constant fluctuation every water change far is worse than leaving it stable.  Your fish will be ok and adapt to whatever your PH is within reason anyways as long as it is stable.
 
 
If you live in an area like I do with soft acidic water then find out which fish like those conditions and vice versa if you have harder more alkaline water.

 

[jason8888]

Easiest way would just buy fish that are best suited to your tap water conditions in the first place.
I'm no expert but from I've read here, trying to change PH and constant fluctuation every water change far is worse than leaving it stable.  Your fish will be ok and adapt to whatever your PH is within reason anyways as long as it is stable.
 
 
If you live in an area like I do with soft acidic water then find out which fish like those conditions and vice versa if you have harder more alkaline water.

OK thanks. yea so far the 2 tetras seem ok with it and are very active. I might call the pet store and see if they can tell me what their original tank I got them from is. I live very close to them so might possible be the same

 

[Skies]

It wasn't until I was older I realized all of the mistakes my mother had made with our attempts to keep fish and why it always failed. Never trust your LFS employees, either they have no idea what they are talking about, or they are feeding you a line of crap so you'll buy stuff. They are very dumb, because if i were them I would give accurate information and persuade the customer to buy a bigger tank, thus spending more money. *shrugs* I'm glad you're getting it sorted out. Keep us posted.

 

[dgwebster]

that is a pretty broad brush there Skies. I used to have an LFS that gave really good advice and could be trusted (except with your money up front by the end.)
 
doing two 50% changes will not remove the same amount of ammonia as a single 80% change. after the first change, 50% of your ammonia will be diluted to 100% of your tank, second 50% removal will remove only 50% of the remaining ammonia. if your value was 8ppm, an 80% change ought to remove 6.4ppm, leaving  1.6ppm
 
a double 50% change will remove 4ppm the first time, then 2ppm the second time (roughly, its real life, ammonia may be accrued somewhere in the tank in a dead spot for example.)
 
If you can provide water adjusted to the correct temperature (say 1 litre boiled water to every 3 litres cold is normally about right, depending on your location) I would try going for 80%, 90% or even 100% water change.  you can then daily manage the ammonia at a much lower level with 40%-50% water changes.

 

[Skies]

that is a pretty broad brush there Skies. I used to have an LFS that gave really good advice and could be trusted (except with your money up front by the end.)
 
doing two 50% changes will not remove the same amount of ammonia as a single 80% change. after the first change, 50% of your ammonia will be diluted to 100% of your tank, second 50% removal will remove only 50% of the remaining ammonia. if your value was 8ppm, an 80% change ought to remove 6.4ppm, leaving  1.6ppm
 
a double 50% change will remove 4ppm the first time, then 2ppm the second time (roughly, its real life, ammonia may be accrued somewhere in the tank in a dead spot for example.)
 
If you can provide water adjusted to the correct temperature (say 1 litre boiled water to every 3 litres cold is normally about right, depending on your location) I would try going for 80%, 90% or even 100% water change.  you can then daily manage the ammonia at a much lower level with 40%-50% water changes.

 
Not really, good advice at a LFS is few and far between, just because it's possible to get good advice from your LFS doesn't mean that's the norm. I think more would agree with me than not. I myself have never received accurate information from any of my LFS, I speak from experience. Not a broad brush at all, it's just typically the case. I would never advise anyone to take the advice of their LFS before first researching it for themselves, better safe than sorry, as bad advice is common in your LFS. Those are just the facts... there are always exceptions, as you have stated... however, to say that you can get good advice from your LFS is a far broader brush.

 

[dgwebster]

Your comments make no such exclusion that they may find a reliable lfs or lfs employee. Instead you see fit to blanket coat them as never to be trusted and dumb. That is quite simply rude and insulting to the many out there that do work hard, whether you have experienced their service or not.

Saying that, blind trust should not be given until it is earned though.

 

[Skies]

Your comments make no such exclusion that they may find a reliable lfs or lfs employee. Instead you see fit to blanket coat them as never to be trusted and dumb. That is quite simply rude and insulting to the many out there that do work hard, whether you have experienced their service or not.

Saying that, blind trust should not be given until it is earned though.

 
That isn't at all what I said, in general, a lot of bad advice is given at your LFS, don't trust what they have told you until researching it yourself because it is better to be safe than sorry. I feel even those who work at a LFS would tend to agree that a lot of bad advice is given, even by their co-workers, this isn't rude, that's just typically the way it goes, however I am sure that there are some that work hard and know what they are talking about... that just simply isn't the TYPICAL thing that happens when you walk into your local fish store. I find it rude that you choose to berate me over this and I am slightly offended by your uncalled for attitude towards me. I am entitled to my opinion, and no amount of of your incessant disagreeableness is going to get me to change my mind.