Help! Fish Dying At End Of Cycle

[damien102]

Tank is 47 gallon (Juwel Vision 180).

6 weeks old.

About 10 plants of various varieties, large piece of driftwood that was leaching resins into the water for a while but seems to have stabilised.

We stocked it with fish from the beginning, mollies, platys, female bettas and a cory, added a couple at a time each week, until eventually we also got a large bristlenose, a large platinum angel and two yoyo loaches.

The cycle has just completed over the last week, but for about the last week or so fish have started to die.

We have lost two female bettas, 2 yoyo loaches, the bristlenose, a rainbow shark, and now the corys and angel look close to death. I have put them in hospital tanks but they don't seem to be improving. We also added two gold sucking catfish after the cycle and water changes (see below) when all the levels were definitely fine, and they are showing signs of distress.

The strange thing is, the mollies and platys don't seem to be affected at all and are swimming around happy as larry.

The nitrates were quite high (> 50ppm) at the end of the cycle so i did two 20% water changes on consecutive days and added more plants to bring them down to arround 15ppm.

We also thought it may be lack of oxygen so we angled the pump toward the surface more and added an air stone which is on 24 hours a day, close to the pump inlet and outlet.

Symptoms:

- Red gills and mouths.

- Fast breathing.

- Laying on side at the bottom of the tank or in plants (corys darting to the surface and lying on plant leaves close to the surface).

- Not eating.

- Dark blemishes/bumps on outside of body.

My girlfriend thinks it might be fish lice, but I am skeptical because of the speed with which the fish are dying, and the fact the mollies and platys are unaffected. We have some lillies in the tank and there are weird eggs on the surface of them with bugs hatching from them, they seem to be eating the leaves, and when i tip the eggs and bugs into the tank the fish don't eat them. We thought at first these might be lice, but then we researched and found that lice lay their eggs underwater (and obviously wouldn't be eating the lily leaves).

There is also a large apple snail in the tank which has been there from the beginning, seems unaffected and continues to grow. We added two red ramshorn snails a few days ago and they have hardly moved.

Ammonia is almost non-existent.

PH is 7, it has been fluctuating between 6 and 7 towards the end of the cycle but i have added PH-Up a couple of times to bring it back up.

GH is 5, KH is about the same

Nitrates are now about 15ppm (were as high as 50ppm a week ago)

Nitrites are zero.

Temperature has been 79F the whole time.

There is also brown algae on a lot of stuff in the tank, and the glass. the bristlenose was taking care of it but since it died the algae has built up (that's why we got the gold sucking catfish, thinking the tank was now fine).

I have tested my tapwater and it is close to perfect: PH 7, zero ammonia, nitrates or nitrite, although it is very soft (we add hardening crystals when we add water to the tank). We also dechlorinate the water before we add it to the tank. I was using Prime but recently switched to Sera Aquatan (I didn't like that the Prime converted/removed ammonia as well, i think it was delaying the cycle), always in the recommended doses.

I added Cycle and Stability (first Cycle until our LFS recommended Stability as being preferable) the whole time during the cycle.

Is it possible the fish are having a delayed reaction to the poor conditions at the peak of the cycle?

We also thought it might be some kind of chemical poisoning. Is there some way to test that?

I don't want to add more fish until we find out what's killing them

Please help!

edit: oh, and I feed them twice daily, a mixture of flakes, spectrum, frozen bloodworm, algae wafers and live brine shrimp (about two of each type of food at each feed).

 

[Mikaila31]

I would think that it is because of the cycle. You are suppose to lightly stock the tank, go through the cycle. Once it is finished you can slowly add fish. A lot of the fish you started adding do not handle ammonia/nitrite well. Even though they survived till the end of the cycle, they may still die as a result of the toxins they were subject to. So I would not be surprised if you lose the angle and cories. The mollies and platies are by far the hardiest fish you have in that tank.

I'd suggest researching fish before you buy them as well, you may of had some issues with the rainbow shark. Google "golden Chinese algae eater" if it is the same fish as your golden sucking catfish. You will definelty have issues with it. They stay peaceful when small, but as it grows it will become agressive. They stop eating algae and will start attacking your other fishs slime coating.

And a note on the Prime, It probably would of been better to use it. It does remove ammonia(NH3), but does it by converting it to less toxic ammonium(NH4+). The ammonium can still be used by the bacteria, so it wouldn't effect your cycle.

 

[damien102]

Thanks for the advice. The cories and angel did die

I waited a few more days, did another water change, and got 4 new fish, 2 yoyo loaches and 2 very small bristlenoses. Ammonia was close to zero, as were nitrites, and nitrates were about 10ppm. ph has stayed around 7.

It's now 2 days later and one of the loaches is dead! They were listless and inactive the whole time they were in the tank. I can't see the other one anywhere, it may well be dead too.

All the live-bearers are still unaffected.

We put our male betta in the tank for a few days during the same period and he developed white mucus around his mouth and a very rapid onset of fin-rot which he hasn't had before in the same tank. He also became listless and stopped eating (we have since removed him from the tank and he seems to be recovering).

There are no markings or discoloration on the loach's body.

What could this be?

 

[pippoodle]

OVER feeding and adding too many fish at once has caused your problems

you dont add 8 new occupants to the tank at once

Male bettas do not usually do well in a community tank and has most probably been attacked and could attack and kill other fish - they are fighting fish

DO NOT add anymore fish for a couple of weeks UNTIL ammonia is 0 and NITRITES are 0

DO A 50% WATER CHANGE (via gravel vac if possible to remove excess food and poop in substrate) right away replacing with dechlorinated tap water near to same temp as tank to remove the nitrites and ammonia
test again tomorrow if there is still some present do another 30-40% change
and the same every day until ammonia and nitrites are 0

when they have been 0 every day for a week then you may add 4 small fish - test again if it rises do the same water changes daily again until clear
then a week of clear tests again you may add some more fish

it seems your filter isnt cycled properly at the moment so adding the large quantity of fish it cant handle

ALSO research the fish before you purchase them as already mentioned the fish you are mixing are not compatible

PLEASE list current tank stock?

ONLY feed the remaining fish every other day a small amount - what they can eat in 2 mins - then when the tank is stable you may feed the same small amount once a day - THIS will lighten the load on the filter aswell

 

[JustKia]

The simple answer is that your tank hasn't cycled.
I noticed you say that ammonia is "close to zero" several times - in a cycled tank it would be zero (not close to zero).
Many of the fish you had/have are not suitable to go through a fish-in cycle.

There's two links in my sig - 1 for fish in cycling (which is where you are at) and 1 for fishless cycle (much easier for most people). Take a read of them both as they explain things much better than I could.
But please stop buying more fish until you tank really is cycled and then only add your stock slowly.
Unless of course you choose the more practical option of re-homing the fish you have and doing a fishless cycle.

 

[damien102]

Current stock is:

- 3 balloon mollies

- 5 platies

When I say ammonia is "close to zero", I mean practically undetectable, as in, very slight green tinge to the re-agent test, less than the first gradient on the test chart, which is .5mg/L.

Nitrites are zero. Nitrates are, as stated, about 10ppm.

I didn't add 8 new occupants, but four: 2 yoyo loaches and 2 tiny bristlenoses (they have all since died within 3 days, despite all the levels still being as stated above). In a 180L tank that really doesn't seem like a large bio-load at once.

I feed the fish twice a day and all the food is consumed within a couple of minutes, there is no excess food in the tank.

How in the world could the problem possibly be the tank being not fully cycled, when the fish are dying so fast, and the levels of all the chemicals being so low?

 

[pippoodle]

fish should only be fed once a day
and the ammonia and nitrites can spike in a newly cycled tank when fish are added

you need to give the filters time to catch up with the increased bio load
yes its not much for a 180 ltr tank but it is when you have an immature filter

DOing a fish in cycle poisons the fish and gives them lasting damage which is more than likely why they have died

corys DO not do well in newly cycled tanks and neither do angel fish

Dark blamishes are signs of ammonia poisoning as is the fast breathing
corys always dart to the top of the tank

in 6 weeks you've added

3 mollys
8 platys
1 angel fish
2 f bettas
1 m betta
2 golden sucking loaches
2 yoyo
1 rainbow shark
1 bn plec
and some corys

this stocking is far too much for cycling the tank , too high stress on the filters

CYCLE product has no beneficial properties and does nothing to speed up the cycling process

brb going to get daughter from nursery

 

[JustKia]

When I say ammonia is "close to zero", I mean practically undetectable, as in, very slight green tinge to the re-agent test, less than the first gradient on the test chart, which is .5mg/L.

Which still means you have ammonia and thus the filter isn't cycled.
Having been there and had the "very slightly green tint" for what seemed like forever, I can assure you it does mean you have detectable ammonia present. Once the filter is cycled the test comes out a pale lemon with no hint of green at all (at least on the API freshwater test kit).
The fact that the filter isn't done cycling and you have added fish that aren't suitable for fish in cycling (ie they do not do well with even a slight hint of ammonia) is contributory to your fish dying.

 

[pippoodle]

please just reduce the feeding do water changes and dont add anymore fish
we are trying to explain what is going on in your tank and to help your fish to stop suffering
not just telling you stuff for the hell of it

please take our advice

also research any fish fully before adding them to the tank

please read the

new tank syndrome link
http/www.fishforums.net/index.php?showtopic=10099

fish in cycle link
http/www.fishforums.net/index.php?showtopic=224306

nitrogen cycle link
http/www.fishforums.net/index.php?showtopic=271928&hl=