Help Bad Water Parameters!

[Jackiee]

I've had a 5 inch Parrot fish cichlid in a 29 gallon aquarium by herself for a year.
(i know it's not recommended, but she was thriving, and was in a 125 gallon beforehand so had already grown almost to her full potential)
Then I took over a 9inch Sail Fin Pleco about a month ago.
Just this past week I was supposed to upgrade to a 75 gallon aquarium but my deal unfortunately and rediculously fell through,
after I promised a family member to take their Turqouise Severum because they had to get rid of their fish tank.
So then I wound up having the 7 inch severum as well, I got her a few days ago.
I already knew this meant lots of water changes.

So now all three are in the same aquarium temporarily. I am going this weekend to purchase a 75 gallon aquarium.

I had been using the dip strips as my means of testing my aquarium water for a while now.
I ran out of test strips 2 weeks ago and just now bought an API freshwater master test kit (like it was recommended by people on this site)
and I tested my water..

PH: 7.4
Ammonia: 8.0 ppm (the worst level on the color card.) (DONT KNOW HOW MY FISH WEREN'T DEAD OR DISPLAYING SYMPTOMS OF AMMONIA POISONING???)
Nitrite: 2.0 ppm (Don't know how they were acting normal with this either??)
Nitrate: 5.0 ppm

I did a huge water change just now, draining all the water until there was only enough left to still cover the fish.


Then I tested my water again about 20 minutes after the water change (don't know if this was long enough for the water paramaters to stabilize?):

PH:7.6-7.8
Ammonia: 4.0 ppm (STILL) (I tested my tap water by itself for ammonia and it had 1.0ppm, not what I was hoping for)
Nitrite:0.25ppm
Nitrate: 10 ppm (also think my nitrates went up because i've read before that tap water can commonly contain nitrates in it)

I conditioned my tap water with Seachem Prime, so I know that helped dramatically reduce nitrite.
And if i'm not mistaken,
it does not get rid of ammonia, but detoxifies it so that it can be converted into nitrite and then nitrate, is this correct?

So the ammonia is not harmful to my fish as of tonight?



Please advice and tips!
I do not want to harm these fish like this!

 

[KittyKat]

So the ammonia is not harmful to my fish as of tonight?

I would be over dosing on the prime as at higher pHs, the ammonia is more toxic. The "safer" (NH[sub]4[/sub][sup]+[/sup]) ammonia is still toxic though, so keep up the water changes!

At pH 7.5, ammonia of 8.0 would kill the average fish in under an hour. You have been very lucky for some reason, lets hope your luck holds out until you can get the new tank. No, signs of ammonia poisoning in fish are not always very obvious.

 

[Jackiee]

Yes, I've heard ammonia not being very obvious before, but the dip strips i was using didnt include an ammonia spot on it,
so I have not been testing for ammonia for quite some time, and I'm assuming it was 8.0ppm for a long while and was amazed my
fish were even still alive and breathing after i seen the results of the tests.

But now that you mention it, before the past month, I had been doing water changes with distilled water and my PH was very low, in the 6.4 - 6.8 range.
Now since I've been doing water changes with tap water, my ph has gone up and up and is now stabilized between 7.4 - 7.6.
After water changes, it goes to 7.8 but buffers down into the 7.4 - 7.6 range.

The prime says I could overdose up to 5 times, but that seems kind of extreme. how much should I overdose? 2x or 3x the original dosage?

Thank you!

 

[Embrace]

Dont overdose on the meds.
Do a 50% waterchange asap. That will bring the levels down.

 

[KittyKat]

But now that you mention it, before the past month, I had been doing water changes with distilled water and my PH was very low, in the 6.4 - 6.8 range.
Now since I've been doing water changes with tap water, my ph has gone up and up and is now stabilized between 7.4 - 7.6.
After water changes, it goes to 7.8 but buffers down into the 7.4 - 7.6 range.

That could explain it..

The prime says I could overdose up to 5 times, but that seems kind of extreme. how much should I overdose? 2x or 3x the original dosage?

2-3* sounds good.. but I have never used Prime before, so can't offer any personal experience.

Dont overdose on the meds.

It isn't a medication, it converts NH[sub]3[/sub] to NH[sub]4[/sub][sup]+[/sup] (both ammonia which can be used by the filter). Jackiee has already done a 100% water change.. there's only so much of that, that the fish can take! 100% twice per day is probably the upper limit from my point of view. Prime is more a precaution to make sure they are not hurt by the ammonia in between the water changes.

Think of it as a dechlorinator for ammonia.

 

[Jackiee]

This is the first time I've used Prime also, I decided to get it because i've heard it's really good stuff.

Yesterday evening, when I first tested my water, my nitrites were high, and I knew they probably would be because I've
been having problems with them latey. But I didn't expect them to be as high as they were, 2.0 ppm.

I overdosed with Prime as the directions said, and retested about 20 minutes later, and the Prime itself had dropped my nitrite all the way to 0.25 ppm.
I was quite amazed (and relieved).

After reading what you said about 7.5 or higher PH making Ammonia more toxic, I dosed with ph decreaser this morning to help the situation.

My test kit has a PH section, then a high range PH section.
Last night my water wouldn't even register on the regular PH color section because it went past the darkest blue, the PH was too high.

So, I tested it with the high range PH and it was 7.4 on that scale.

Now, after adding the ph decreaser, it's showing up on the regular PH scale, but barely. It's at the highest spot on the color card, the darkest blue, at 7.6

I just now tested the water again today and here are the stats:
PH: 7.6
Ammonia: 4.0 ppm (still )
Nitrite: 0.25 ppm
Nitrate: 10 ppm

Nothing has really changed from yesterday except a slight decrease in ph due to the ph decreaser.

I did redose with prime today though, just so I keep the toxicity of the levels away from harming my fish.

And even though I'm going to continue doing water changes, what do I do about my tap water containing 0.50ppm of ammonia?
Or is this a little enough amount to where conditioning the water with prime before adding it to my tank, will remove it?


Other than that, my fish appear to be fine and are acting normal, eating, swimming, etc.


Ugh, need my 75 gallon now.

 

[Jackiee]

Dont overdose on the meds.
Do a 50% waterchange asap. That will bring the levels down.

Thanks for the input, Embrace.
I already did almost 100% water change, drained and replaced as much water as I could, with leaving just enough water for the fish to stay submerged.
The stats barely budged. My ammonia went from 8.0 ppm to 4.0 ppm, but thats about it, all other stats remained the same including nitrite, nitrate, and ph.

 

[KittyKat]

Keep up water changes. pH fluctuations are not good for the fish... so be careful.

 

[Jackiee]

I'm only adding 2.5 ml per 10 gallons, and I will only do it exactly 24 hours apart. I know Ph swings more than .5 can be harmful.

 

[Jackiee]

I did another huge water change, once again only enough for my fish to barely stay submerged.

Tested my water again, here's the stats:

PH:7.4 still
Ammonia: 2.0ppm (went down another level from the last water change i did(4.0ppm), and down two levels since the first(8.0ppm))
Nitrite:0.25ppm still
Nitrate: 10ppm



But wait a second.. I just noticed that if i take the test tubes and put them right up against the white background next to the color chart, they're alot darker/brighter
than If i hold them up in a well lit room against the light and see what color it matches.
Which am i supposed to do for more accurate results?

Because If I give results with the test tubes right up against the white background of the card,
the stats are:

PH:7.4
Ammonia: 4.0ppm
Nitrite:0.25ppm
Nitrate: 40ppm

Only certain colors change when I do this though (green-ammonia and red/orange-nitrate)

 

[KittyKat]

I hold the tubes right up against the card, in good lighting. You should try to look at the hue more than at the darkness of the liquid, maybe?

 

[Jackiee]

I just upgraded to a new 90 gallon aquarium.
At first I didn't want to use the water from the old tank in the new tank since the parameters were bad anyways..

but last night.. before even adding ANY water into my new tank, I tested the water from my old tank, parameters were still bad..
An ammonia of 4.0 and a nitrite of .50ppm ...

Then, I tested the bucket of water that I had filled with my tap water that I was about to pour into the new tank..
MY TAP WATER IS BAD!
The tap water alone, had 2.0ppm of ammonia and 0.25ppm of nitrite!
So, with that being said, I siphoned out the water from my old tank and put it in the new tank since
the parameters weren't going to improve either way..

What the heck am I supposed to do about that?
It's not like I can go out and buy THAT much spring water from the grocery store every time I need to do a water change,
that's way too expensive and a huge hassel..


Advice?






*EDIT: I just checked my water stats again. My tank has been set up and running over night and all of today. My fish are in there, I transfered them last night.

Here's the stats:
Ammonia:4.0 ppm
Nitrite:0.50 ppm
Nitrate:40 ppm
PH: 7.4 - 7.6



I don't know what to do.

 

[CrustyOnEastCoast]

I feel your pain, my tap water registers 1.5 to 2.0 ppm of ammonia, but no nitrites.
You are the first person I have met with tap water worse than mine!
Related to bad tap water, you can follow a thread I just started here: Removing ammonia from my tap water

Honestly, I would have put water from your tap in the new aquarium (2.0ppm is half of 4.0ppm !).

Also, I would have left your fish in the old aquarium, and performed a full fishless cycle on the new aquarium.
(Maybe you can move them back and do this?)

Once the new aquarium is truly ready (fishless cycle complete, ammonia and nitrite processing in 12 hours for a week). You can move the fish over and use the old aquarium as a water conditioner! You would empty out the decorations and gravel, but keep the filter and heater ... and continue to feed it with ammonia (to keep the bacteria strong). Then you can use that clean water from your old tank as replacement water for your new tank.

Another option is to purchase an RO Unit and make your own purified water. Then, you just add minerals to it, (like Seachem replenish) .. and it is wonderful for your fish. Just be sure to use the same measurements of the
minerals all the time since fish don't like changes in hardness level.

 

[Jackiee]

I feel your pain, my tap water registers 1.5 to 2.0 ppm of ammonia, but no nitrites.
You are the first person I have met with tap water worse than mine!
Related to bad tap water, you can follow a thread I just started here: Removing ammonia from my tap water

Honestly, I would have put water from your tap in the new aquarium (2.0ppm is half of 4.0ppm !).

Also, I would have left your fish in the old aquarium, and performed a full fishless cycle on the new aquarium.
(Maybe you can move them back and do this?)

Once the new aquarium is truly ready (fishless cycle complete, ammonia and nitrite processing in 12 hours for a week). You can move the fish over and use the old aquarium as a water conditioner! You would empty out the decorations and gravel, but keep the filter and heater ... and continue to feed it with ammonia (to keep the bacteria strong). Then you can use that clean water from your old tank as replacement water for your new tank.

Another option is to purchase an RO Unit and make your own purified water. Then, you just add minerals to it, (like Seachem replenish) .. and it is wonderful for your fish. Just be sure to use the same measurements of the
minerals all the time since fish don't like changes in hardness level.

I know, it really sucks!
I had another person tell me that they had never even heard of nitrites in tap water, only nitrates, before I posted a forum about my tap water containing Nitrite.

Well the only reason I went ahead and added the old water to the new tank, is because it was only a 29 gallon and I upgraded to a 90 gallon. the water from the old tank barely even
covered the bottom of my new one, so I figured it wouldnt really make much of a difference because i'd be putting like 80% new water in there from my tap anyways.
And I can not use my old tank as a water conditioner because part of the reason I moved and upgraded is because my old aquarium got a stress fracture and I didn't want it to run
and crack open, as I live in an apartment. Also, the stress fracture is near the bottom, so I can't even fill it up halfway or 3/4 the way as conditioned water because it could still break.

How much are RO Units? I have heard of them, but I'm on a tight budget right now (aren't we all)

If not, do you know of anything I could add into my water to completeELIMINATE ammonia/nitrite from my water? instead of just detoxifying it?
Because I've been using Prime to keep the effects of the ammonia and nitrite from harming my fish, but I don't want to do this forever! And in my LFS's the Prime only comes
in a small bottle, for about $4. but for the Prime to start taking my nitrite down, I have to overdose with Prime extensively (like the directions say) up to 5x the original
dose which is only 2 drops per gallon. I use a whole bottle quickly.

If I were to overdose times 5,

90gal x 2 drops= 180 drops
180 drops x 5times = 900 drops
900gals divided by 2 drops = 450 gallons worth of Prime, and the little bottle from my LFS treats 500 gallons.

So one 5 times overdose would use nearly the whole bottle!
Sorry about the math lol,


But I wish there was a better fix.

 

[KittyKat]

For the moment, try to get your pH down with some bogwood (the pleco will appreciate some more to destroy, I am sure!) and plants.. it won't affect it much, but over time, my tank water dropped from the 8.0 tap to 6.0.

Also keep using Prime or another dechlorinator which makes ammonia harmless to treat the water. Eventually, your filter should be able to cope with it in the larger tank.