Hello! Newbie, First Tank, 25 Gal, 2 Tiger Barbs...

[ninpomajic]

Hello everyone! I'm Adam from Kentucky, US, and I am a complete fishkeeping noob. I have been reading alot on this website and have been trying to learn all that I can from all the info here. My mother has been keeping fish her whole life and gave me a 25 gallon tank, a HOB filter and various other trimmings to get me started. However, she could not give me any mature filter media as her nephew killed all of her fish 2 months ago by putting a slew of candy canes in her 55 gallon in the middle of the night.

So, I set up my tank, dechlorinated, set up my heater and let the tank run for 2 days. Yesterday I went and purchased 2 tiger barbs from Petsmart, only to get them home and have one show signs of ich. The fish has no white spots but is consitently "rubbing" on an exposed air tube for my little bubbling dinosaur. And generally is not swimming very well. I was torn as to wether to start ich treatment as the tank has not even been cycled yet. I ended up taking out my charcoal media and put in some rid ich in the tank.

Now, here is the great part... I wake up this morning and the power has been out all night and the tank temperature has fallen to 69 degrees. The power just recently came back on... Anyway, I knew i needed to do a partial water change bc of the ich medicine and to remove ammonia. So i did about a 15 percent water change and added some dechlorinated warm water to help raise the temp a little. The temp raised about 5 degrees to 74 and since i have done this, the fish just sit at the bottom right hand side of the tank, not doing much.

WATER READINGS:

NITRATE:0
NITRITE:0
HARDNESS:150 HARD
CHLORINE:0
ALKALINITY:80 MODERATE
PH:6.8 NEUTRAL

I have abandoned the ich treatment for now. That fish is still not exhibiting good signs, however. I dont know what to do....
My question is: what should I do to keep these fish alive and put them through as little stress as possible while cycling? Any help would be appreciated!!



EDIT: the fish also will not eat. I have tried to feed them yesterday and again this morning.... they wont eat anything.

 

[Plecs&Puffers]

Hiya,

Not sure whats wrong with your fish, other than your tank might not have cycled properly. But i'm sure i have read somewhere that Tiger Barbs should be kept in larger numbers maybe 5-6? i may be wrong. Im not sure how hardy Tiger barbs are, to cope with a non cycled tank, maybe you needed to go for a more hardy fish like a platy.
However, if they do have ICH it is really easy to treat, you can even use non antiboitic treatments such as Melafix and Pimafix which are herbal remedies.

Fish not eating is never a good sign, happy fish are hungry fish and eat like pigs! literally

Goodluck with your fish! hope they pull through!

 

[waterdrop]

Hi Adam from Kentucky and welcome to the forum,

Since you don't have many responses I'm going to jump in with some suggestions. Despite my post numbers I'm mostly a beginner lately myself so you should keep an eye out for more experienced forum members to comment later. I will not address the ich as I am not qualified.

The symptoms you describe sound like they could be coming from the basics, though, from not being cycled. From the list of tests you've given, I'll bet you are using test strips. If so, the usual recommendation is to toss them in the trash or save them for some emergency. It would be much better for you to get a freshwater master test kit (many here including myself use API, there are other good ones too but the API is reasonably priced) the next time you can get back by that Petsmart. The important thing is that the test method be based on liquid reagents rather than strips. Follow the instructions very carefully if you get one.

Its great that you've already done at least one water change but that was probably too modest. You should probably be doing 50% water changes daily or even better 25% twice a day (again, experts may recommend a better regime than me.) When you do the water changes you'll not only want to dechlor the new water but also try harder to match the temperature more closely. The barbs probably liked the 5 degree sudden change even less than they liked the cold the night before. You are going in the right direction but always try to only move a degree or two in a water change for a small tank like 15G. Matching the tap temperature by using your hands and a cup of tank water is good enough - surprisingly accurate.

The water change will accomplish several things. Most importantly it will start to quickly lower any ammonia or nitrite, which, as you know, are extremely toxic to fish gills. You almost certainly have an ammonia problem and possibly a nitrite problem that the strips may just not be telling about correctly. Also the water change will start to clear the bacterial bloom that is visible in your picture (I mean, it could be unwashed gravel powder or such, but its probably a bacterial bloom.) You're going to have to keep these water changes up day after day until you get the feel of testing for ammonia and nitrite and figure out how long it takes the barbs to pollute their water. You are doing a "Fish-In" cycle, the hard kind.

Food: Its not actually a bad thing that the barbs are not eating. Its better to only feed them about every third day and only a little bit under these conditions. They will fare better with less food and you will be creating less ammonia via the un-eaten fish food, which quickly decays into ammonia and "chokes their breathing" so to speak. By all means pay close attention to them and give them a bit more once they rise up and take it in an interested and healthy manner!

When you get your test kit you should immediately practice using it by testing your tap water and posting that and the tankwater results here. Good Luck!

~~waterdrop~~

 

[ninpomajic]

Thanks for all the help!! You are right Waterdrop, I am using test strips as opposed to a liquid kit. I was not aware they were not accurate, and will purchase a new kit as soon as I can get back to the "LFS". I turned the lights off and they seem to be a lot happier for the time being. Also, I am going to do another 25% water change tonight. Thanks again for all the advice!

I also now know that tiger barbs prefer to be in a group of 6 or more, but I do not want to add more fish to the tank while it is not cylced. Seems as though I have made a lot of rookie mistakes here....

 

[AngelOfDeath]

yeah petsmart sucks ass for fish, like 40% of thier goldfish had itch when i went in

 

[waterdrop]

Thanks for all the help!! You are right Waterdrop, I am using test strips as opposed to a liquid kit. I was not aware they were not accurate, and will purchase a new kit as soon as I can get back to the "LFS". I turned the lights off and they seem to be a lot happier for the time being. Also, I am going to do another 25% water change tonight. Thanks again for all the advice!

I also now know that tiger barbs prefer to be in a group of 6 or more, but I do not want to add more fish to the tank while it is not cylced. Seems as though I have made a lot of rookie mistakes here....

You are making very good decisions. The good test kit will be well worth it. Do lots of tests. The methodology will get to be second nature. Try to correlate your results with what you read in the threads. Fish especially don't like lights when their world is not settled. So once again you did the right thing! Their world is not settled because your tank is new, its getting water changes and its not cycled so breathing is difficult for them, so low light helps relax some of that stress. Finally, you are definately right that you don't want to add any more fish when fish-in cycling! While you are right about barbs liking a big group, that is a minor thing right now compared to them staying alive.

Don't hesitate to chat about your progress, TFF members are great about hearing your little details, positive or negative!
SeeYa

 

[backtotropical]

Hi,

Some good advice so far, and it appears that you have done some research too. Well done!

I have nothing to add to the advice already given other than don't be afraid to do big water changes. Water changes are the only lifeline your fish have at the moment to stop them dying from ammonia poisoning. Changes of 50% - 75% would not be extreme in your situation. Once you get a liquid test kit, we can advise you further about what your test results tell you and what to do to achieve the desired test results.

Also, you must start administering the Ich treatment. Water changes will not cure Ich, and it could kill your fish within a matter of 1 or 2 days if left untreated. Water changes make treatment slightly more difficult because when you change water, you remove the medication from the tank too, but this is easily solved by adding the relevant amount of medication to the fresh water.

Now, all that said, is it possible that you could return the fish to the shop (maybe after the ich treatment) and start a fishless cycle? You only have 2 fish, so it shouldn't be too much of a problem for your LFS.

A fishless cycle is much less work and stress for you, and is much easier on the fish too. It's definitely worth consideration.

Hope this helps.

Cheers

BTT

 

[dwarfgourami]

Also, you must start administering the Ich treatment. Water changes will not cure Ich, and it could kill your fish within a matter of 1 or 2 days if left untreated. Water changes make treatment slightly more difficult because when you change water, you remove the medication from the tank too, but this is easily solved by adding the relevant amount of medication to the fresh water.

Do we know that these fish actually have ich? If the only symptom is rubbing, then that could be a sign of many things, including ammonia poisoning. I would concentrate on the water changes for now, and not add any medication that could muck up the cycle unless I knew for sure that my fish had that particular disease.

 

[backtotropical]

Thanks for the correction, Dwarfgourami.

I was basing this on the assumption that Ich had been positively identified, but looking back at the OP, it hasn't. In fact from the symptoms described (no white spots), it is more likely to be a reaction to a build up of ammonia. This could of course lead to white spot, but i agree that you should not treat a disease until a positive ID has been made.

My apologies, my mind must be slipping today. It may be old age, i turned 28 last week.

-edited for senile mistakes. My avatar says it all today...................

 

[waterdrop]

oh, pooor BTT! At least I'm not in danger of being double your age!

Yes, that is what I was thinking, that the symptoms could easily be just ammonia poisoning. But I could have stated that in my long-winded answer and it would have helped you.

I subscribe to the belief that you learn something much better if you attempt to teach it, even early on as you're still learning it yourself. Since I'm trying to re-learn the hobby I've been trying to help with the one thing I've now read up on pretty well, water chem cycling stuff. But the down side is I don't trust myself to remember fish disease symptoms very well and so I stay shut-up about those.. glad when you guys (like BTT!) come along and verify..

Anyway, ninpo, would be interesting to hear an update on your fish's behaviour.

~~waterdrop~~

 

[Miss Wiggle]

Hi Adam from Kentucky and welcome to the forum,

Since you don't have many responses I'm going to jump in with some suggestions. Despite my post numbers I'm mostly a beginner lately myself so you should keep an eye out for more experienced forum members to comment later. I will not address the ich as I am not qualified.

The symptoms you describe sound like they could be coming from the basics, though, from not being cycled. From the list of tests you've given, I'll bet you are using test strips. If so, the usual recommendation is to toss them in the trash or save them for some emergency. It would be much better for you to get a freshwater master test kit (many here including myself use API, there are other good ones too but the API is reasonably priced) the next time you can get back by that Petsmart. The important thing is that the test method be based on liquid reagents rather than strips. Follow the instructions very carefully if you get one.

Its great that you've already done at least one water change but that was probably too modest. You should probably be doing 50% water changes daily or even better 25% twice a day (again, experts may recommend a better regime than me.) When you do the water changes you'll not only want to dechlor the new water but also try harder to match the temperature more closely. The barbs probably liked the 5 degree sudden change even less than they liked the cold the night before. You are going in the right direction but always try to only move a degree or two in a water change for a small tank like 15G. Matching the tap temperature by using your hands and a cup of tank water is good enough - surprisingly accurate.

The water change will accomplish several things. Most importantly it will start to quickly lower any ammonia or nitrite, which, as you know, are extremely toxic to fish gills. You almost certainly have an ammonia problem and possibly a nitrite problem that the strips may just not be telling about correctly. Also the water change will start to clear the bacterial bloom that is visible in your picture (I mean, it could be unwashed gravel powder or such, but its probably a bacterial bloom.) You're going to have to keep these water changes up day after day until you get the feel of testing for ammonia and nitrite and figure out how long it takes the barbs to pollute their water. You are doing a "Fish-In" cycle, the hard kind.

Food: Its not actually a bad thing that the barbs are not eating. Its better to only feed them about every third day and only a little bit under these conditions. They will fare better with less food and you will be creating less ammonia via the un-eaten fish food, which quickly decays into ammonia and "chokes their breathing" so to speak. By all means pay close attention to them and give them a bit more once they rise up and take it in an interested and healthy manner!

When you get your test kit you should immediately practice using it by testing your tap water and posting that and the tankwater results here. Good Luck!

~~waterdrop~~

wise words young padawan

don't be down on yourself cos you're new to this, you've made some real effort to learn your stuff and give good advice.

agree with everything posted, treating for ich would be countrproductive cos the ich med will kill off bacteria which you are trying to grow. if possible return the fish to the shop and fishless cycle, if not then follow the advice above and water change water change water change

 

[waterdrop]

gee, thanks MW, but what's a padawan?

 

[Miss Wiggle]

from star wars (i think) kind of means apprentice or something like that.

think the bloke who trains the jedi's say's it to one of the young jedi's. dunno really not that familiar with the film but i like the word padawan! lol

 

[waterdrop]

o thats fun!

think I went to see the first star wars the weekend it came out - was on a huge screen in a huge theatre and it was stunning.

 

[ninpomajic]

Hi again everyone, and thanks for all of this advice. And a padawan is a Jedi apprentice that has not passed the Jedi Trials Miss Wiggle .

Anywho, onto the serious issue. MY FISH ARE DYING . I have no idea what to do.... the one that was exhibiting signs of ich (fred) is now "laying" upside down on the bottom of tank barely breathing and the other fish (bob) is exhibiting the signs that fred was initially. I have been doing 50% water changes is everday, and have gradually increased the tank temperature to 80 degrees. I woke up this morning to find that my heater has possibly ruptutured and is "bubbling" out one of its sides, so now that has been taken out. I dont know what to do and my LFS wont take the fish back .



Oh, and also, they still have not eaten anything. I have tried to feed them again today.