Has Anyone Used Wormer Plus?

[Egmel]

like it says in the title, my guppies have had an attack of internal worms so I found this product recommended by discus keepers called wormer plus, it's a powder form and you mix it with a bit of tank water before adding it to the tank. My problem is that the tank which starts off cloudy with the wormer goes clear over night and I'm worried that the wormer is all being removed before it has a chance to do any good.

Has anyone else used this and if so do you have any advice?

Many thanks.

 

[KimA]

Hi,

I've used this, and my tank went from cloudy to clear overnight too (from what I've read this is fine) - just make sure that any carbon pads are taken out of the filter before using it.

 

[Egmel]

Hi,

I've used this, and my tank went from cloudy to clear overnight too (from what I've read this is fine) - just make sure that any carbon pads are taken out of the filter before using it.

Grand, don't use carbon anyway

Did it do the job for you and clear up whatever it was you were using it to treat?

 

[KimA]

Did it do the job for you and clear up whatever it was you were using it to treat?

Unfortunately couldn't say (but I sure hope so) as I'm using it for Discus who should be treated monthly to keep worms etc at bay. It is highly recommended though - I checked with a few places/people before buying/dosing.

Hope it works for your Guppies too

 

[Bignose]

Unfortunately couldn't say (but I sure hope so) as I'm using it for Discus who should be treated monthly to keep worms etc at bay. It is highly recommended though - I checked with a few places/people before buying/dosing.

Hope it works for your Guppies too

What are you adding every month that requires a re-dose of worm medicine? New fish? Infected live food? The reason I ask is, why don't you just kill off all the worms in the tank and then not worry about it again -- worms cannot just spring up out of nowhere!
Something has to be bringing the worms back, you adding something to the tank, or you not competely killing off the infection. Worms should not be coming in with your water, if they are you need to have a very serious talk with your water company!

Is wormer plus the commercial name for praziquantel? Because praziquantel is a very good wormer, with almost no side effects at all. Hikari makes a liquid form called Prazi-Plus that is much more manageable than the powder, though both forms have the exact same active ingredients. If wormer plus is not praziquantel, you might want to try that. Just be sure to keep dosing for several days after all symptoms of the infection stop. You want to be sure to eliminate 100% of the population, and not leave a small asymptomatic population that can come back at a latter time.

 

[KimA]

Unfortunately couldn't say (but I sure hope so) as I'm using it for Discus who should be treated monthly to keep worms etc at bay. It is highly recommended though - I checked with a few places/people before buying/dosing.

Hope it works for your Guppies too

What are you adding every month that requires a re-dose of worm medicine? New fish? Infected live food? The reason I ask is, why don't you just kill off all the worms in the tank and then not worry about it again -- worms cannot just spring up out of nowhere!
Something has to be bringing the worms back, you adding something to the tank, or you not competely killing off the infection. Worms should not be coming in with your water, if they are you need to have a very serious talk with your water company!

Is wormer plus the commercial name for praziquantel? Because praziquantel is a very good wormer, with almost no side effects at all. Hikari makes a liquid form called Prazi-Plus that is much more manageable than the powder, though both forms have the exact same active ingredients. If wormer plus is not praziquantel, you might want to try that. Just be sure to keep dosing for several days after all symptoms of the infection stop. You want to be sure to eliminate 100% of the population, and not leave a small asymptomatic population that can come back at a latter time.

Hi,

I'm not adding anything each month - Discus require worming every month to help keep them in tip top condition - I don't have worms in my water or tank.

Oh, and this wasn't my post to start with, it was Egmel's

 

[Egmel]

Is wormer plus the commercial name for praziquantel? Because praziquantel is a very good wormer, with almost no side effects at all. Hikari makes a liquid form called Prazi-Plus that is much more manageable than the powder, though both forms have the exact same active ingredients. If wormer plus is not praziquantel, you might want to try that. Just be sure to keep dosing for several days after all symptoms of the infection stop. You want to be sure to eliminate 100% of the population, and not leave a small asymptomatic population that can come back at a latter time.

Wormer plus is a Flubenol 15 treatment and is apparently this is the only legal over the counter aquatic wormer in the UK.

Be careful when using flubenol in the uk though, the only licenced wormers available are wormer plus and flubenol 15.
Normal flubenol from the vets is not legal for aquatic use as of October this year when the small animal exemption scheme was updated.
It is now illegal to own, use, or administer ( obtain, supply, give away) ANY restricted medication unless under the direct supervision of a vet or "qualified person"...such a person will be a specialist such as a fish health advisor on a fish farm etc...
It is also illegal to use a prescribed, restricted or over the counter medication on any animal it is not approved or perscribed for. Using a pig wormer on fish is illegal, using metro prescribed for sheep on fish is illegal... and the penalties are steep. With the exception of vetinary supervision on non food animals where a degree of freedom in the choice of meds is allowed.

 

[Bignose]

Hi,

I'm not adding anything each month - Discus require worming every month to help keep them in tip top condition - I don't have worms in my water or tank.

Oh, and this wasn't my post to start with, it was Egmel's

Why do discus require worming medicine every month if they don't have worms? This seems like unnecessary medication and a waste of money. If there are no worms, what does the worming medicine even do?

By using the medicine when it is not needed, you actually dramatically increase the risk of breeding medication-resistant strains, and then the medicine may not work as well as it should when you really need it. Overuse of unneeded medication is why those medications are as tightly restricted as they are today (something the US could really use, in my opinion).

 

[KimA]

Why do discus require worming medicine every month if they don't have worms? This seems like unnecessary medication and a waste of money. If there are no worms, what does the worming medicine even do?

By using the medicine when it is not needed, you actually dramatically increase the risk of breeding medication-resistant strains, and then the medicine may not work as well as it should when you really need it. Overuse of unneeded medication is why those medications are as tightly restricted as they are today (something the US could really use, in my opinion).

I can see where you're coming from, but

"Every Discus carries it's own compliment of worms, and when they are not stressed or their immune system is not compromised, this is not a problem. But, if a fish is picked on or bullied this is when it could get stressed and suffer with an outbreak of intestinal worms. They can't be avoided....."

My cat doesn't have worms, but it is still wormed on a regular basis (same as a dog) to prevent sickness - I would rather go with the saying "prevention is better than cure" rather than the "if it's not broke, don't fix it" approach and then have to deal with the consequences down the line with this particular breed of fish.

From what I've read, a large amount of Discus keepers/breeders worm them - that's what I'm doing and that's my personal choice in keeping my particular choice of fish healthy. My other fish/tanks don't get wormed on a regular basis, but for Discus I believe it's a different story.



Now, back to the original topic of Guppies and Wormer Plus - how're your fish doing Egmel?

 

[tmack]

I believe the flubenol has limited solubility in water, and doesn't readily go into solution. That would explain the initial cloudiness that disappears with time as the flubenol eventually does all dissolve.

 

[Egmel]

Now, back to the original topic of Guppies and Wormer Plus - how're your fish doing Egmel?

Not great it has to be said, most of them don't seem to worry that much about the worms but one of them has developed a hole just blow her anus and isn't eating properly There doesn't seem to be any improvement since I dosed on Saturday.

 

[Bignose]

Then, why don't you cure the discus 100% of worms, then no matter how stressed the discus gets it won't get worms. The worms have to come from somewhere. so long as you don't introduce new worms with fish or food or new plants or new anything, worms do not just spontaneously appear. It is impossible.

You dog or cat can get worms accidently because they eat something they shouldn't, or if you are feeding them raw meat or something like that. But, it is the same thing, worms cannot just spontaneously appear in your dog or cat, they had to come in from somewhere.

Breeders probably deworm as a cautionary procedure since they are importing and receiving new fish all the time. Rather than wait for the fish to show symptoms, they just assume they all have it. But you, as a home keeper, should not have to worry about worms constantly, unless you are introducing them.

Let me give you another analogy: You mother probably told you to wear a coat in the winter so you wouldn't get a cold. That is not quite true. Not wearing a coat does weaken your immune system, which makes you more vulnerable to cold viruses, but there is no way not wearing a coat makes a cold virus spontaneously appear in your body. If the same thing with worms. Yes, if there is an asymptomatic infection, stress will then weaken the discus' immune system, and the infection will then start to show symptoms. But, if there are no worms in the first place, I could shake the tank, pound on the glass, do a 95% water change with ice water, and toss 500 (non-disease carrying!) tiger barbs in there to attack the discus's fins, and the discus will be very stressed, but won't get worms. Stress cannot cause worms to spontaneously appear!

That is why I said, why don't you just medicate completely for several days to make sure that 100% of the possible infection is gone, and then never have to worry about it again.

The problem with medicating when it is not needed again is the selective breeding of resistant strains. Unnecessary medication can lead to a population of worms that will not respond to the medication you are using now. And you said yourself how difficult it is to get anti-worm medicine there, so when you may really need the worm medicine, it is going to take a lot of effort. I can give you some examples, staph infections can be very difficult to kill today since there are some strains of staph that are resistant to almost every antibiotic -- primarily due to over-prescription and casual use of antibiotics. In a more fish-related example there are ich strains today that a very resistant to medications, again because of casual use of ich medications when it was not needed. It may never rear its ugly head, but the potential is there for much greater worm problems in the future.

p.s. that quote is meaningless unless you cite where you got it from.

 

[Anita]

p.s. that quote is meaningless unless you cite where you got it from.

http/www.plymouthdiscus.com/earlybird1.jpg
http/www.plymouthdiscus.com/earlybird2.jpg

Quote came from Chris at Plymouth Discus
http/www.plymouthdiscus.com/index.html

Anita

 

[KimA]

p.s. that quote is meaningless unless you cite where you got it from.

http/www.plymouthdiscus.com/earlybird1.jpg
http/www.plymouthdiscus.com/earlybird2.jpg

Quote came from Chris at Plymouth Discus
http/www.plymouthdiscus.com/index.html

Anita

Thank you Anita - beat me to it.

 

[demonmagus]

I could shake the tank, pound on the glass, do a 95% water change with ice water, and toss 500 (non-disease carrying!) tiger barbs in there to attack the discus's fins, and the discus will be very stressed, but won't get worms. Stress cannot cause worms to spontaneously appear!

I can't get that image out of my head now lol