Hard Water?
- Thread starter dgoulston
- Start date
Miss Wiggle
Practically perfect in every way
when you say 'really hard' water, what readings are you getting exactly?
Miss Wiggle
Practically perfect in every way
ok throw the 5 in 1 test strips away they're utterly useless.
unfortunatley for those of us without a science lab at home it can be difficult to get accurate readings for our fish tanks, all test kits readily available are inaccurate to a degree, however some are better than others. the test strips aren't worth the paper they are printed on. You should invest in a decent liquid test kit (API Master Test Kit retails for around £17 and is pretty good). The results from the liquid tests will still not be perfect (there are notable problems with the nitrate reading) but they are a hell of a lot better than the test strips.
Without an accurate reading we can't really advise you on what's best for your fish, you'll probably find with a liquid test kit the results are vastly different to with the test strips
unfortunatley for those of us without a science lab at home it can be difficult to get accurate readings for our fish tanks, all test kits readily available are inaccurate to a degree, however some are better than others. the test strips aren't worth the paper they are printed on. You should invest in a decent liquid test kit (API Master Test Kit retails for around £17 and is pretty good). The results from the liquid tests will still not be perfect (there are notable problems with the nitrate reading) but they are a hell of a lot better than the test strips.
Without an accurate reading we can't really advise you on what's best for your fish, you'll probably find with a liquid test kit the results are vastly different to with the test strips
i have the liquid test kits for the nitrate and all, just was interested in me PH & hardness, so thought i would go for the cheap option for them,
I know for a fact that my water in my area is extremly hard anyway, but i have been using the water treatment when i do water changes!
is really hard water a bad thing for the type of fish i have? am going to pop to my LFS tonight if its open late and get some proper testing stuff for all the other stuff, i did notice that when i took a sample of water to them they only tested for Nitrate(or nitrite) cant remember which one, and this has been my experience in a few fish shops, they say that they dont bother testing for the rest as they are just bi-products!
which throws me off, as everyone on here says u need to test for everything, but the LFS & pro fish shops say just N
Darren.
I know for a fact that my water in my area is extremly hard anyway, but i have been using the water treatment when i do water changes!
is really hard water a bad thing for the type of fish i have? am going to pop to my LFS tonight if its open late and get some proper testing stuff for all the other stuff, i did notice that when i took a sample of water to them they only tested for Nitrate(or nitrite) cant remember which one, and this has been my experience in a few fish shops, they say that they dont bother testing for the rest as they are just bi-products!
which throws me off, as everyone on here says u need to test for everything, but the LFS & pro fish shops say just N
Darren.
Miss Wiggle
Practically perfect in every way
just to be cynical, look at it from the point of view of an lfs who doesn't really care about fish, just about profit margins.
the less tests they do for you, the cheaper it is for them to do them. If it's only nitrate that they test for then a reading of anything up to 40ppm (arguably more) is fine and means that they can sell you fish in 'clear conscience' that the tank is ok (although this is not in fact true cos it's perfeclty possible if not probable to have high ammonia and no nitrate), you can go and check your nitrate reading against any source and be told that it's fine, so if the fish die you can't lay any liability with the fish shop, you then go back and buy more fish to replace the ones that died, therefore spending more money in the shop, if you go in and ask them about the deaths they can also sell you loads of products and meds that you don't need.
OK so not every shops is so cynical... but some of them are.
we are here giving advice for free, in our own time, we have no concievable ulterior motive for giving out bad info.
ultimatley though you have to choose who you want to trust, best bet is to trust no one and every 'fact' you are given, cross check against as many sources as possible until you have a clear idea of what is true and what isn't.
regarding the other readings being a 'by product'.... every reading in your tank is a by product of some reaction or other.
simplified explanation of your main readings and why you need to test for each one.
pH - the general measure of hardness, alkalinity, acidity. every fish has they're own requirements for these factors, some are more fussy than others, many things in your tank (e.g. bogwood, gravel, plants) can have an effect on your pH in some way so it can fluctuate, particularly in new tanks you should monitor it to see if there are significant fluctuations hwich oculd affect your fish. in a mature tank you don't need to test for it all the time.
ammonia - this is what fish produce, they're waste, combined with things like dying plants and uneaten food, breaks down into ammonia. Even a small reading of ammonia is very bad for your fish so particularly in new tanks, this should be monitored.
in your filter bacteria grow which 'eat' the ammonia and convert it into nitrite
nitrite - this is the by product of the ammonia eating bacteria, it is just as dangerous to fish as ammonia is so should be monitored for in new tanks.
in your filter a second species of bacteria grow wich 'eat' the nitrite and convert it into nitrate
nitrate - this is the by product of the nitrite eating bacteria, it is still dangerous to fish but significantly less so than ammonia or nitrite, there is evidence that readings of up to 400ppm can be tolerated, however most advise is to keep it closer to 40ppm or less. nitrate is removed by water changes, plants will also use it as fertilisation.
hope that explains why you need to monitor all 4 levels, particularly in new tanks (although in mature tanks they should still be checked periodically and at the first sign of disease you should test all levels)
regarding your particular fish and hardness
mollies prefer hard water, neon's prefer soft (i think) but should be able to tolerate it
glass cats i'm not familiar with their requirements but you can check in teh fish species index and you'd need to tell us the species for your other cats for us to tell you.
the less tests they do for you, the cheaper it is for them to do them. If it's only nitrate that they test for then a reading of anything up to 40ppm (arguably more) is fine and means that they can sell you fish in 'clear conscience' that the tank is ok (although this is not in fact true cos it's perfeclty possible if not probable to have high ammonia and no nitrate), you can go and check your nitrate reading against any source and be told that it's fine, so if the fish die you can't lay any liability with the fish shop, you then go back and buy more fish to replace the ones that died, therefore spending more money in the shop, if you go in and ask them about the deaths they can also sell you loads of products and meds that you don't need.
OK so not every shops is so cynical... but some of them are.
we are here giving advice for free, in our own time, we have no concievable ulterior motive for giving out bad info.
ultimatley though you have to choose who you want to trust, best bet is to trust no one and every 'fact' you are given, cross check against as many sources as possible until you have a clear idea of what is true and what isn't.
regarding the other readings being a 'by product'.... every reading in your tank is a by product of some reaction or other.
simplified explanation of your main readings and why you need to test for each one.
pH - the general measure of hardness, alkalinity, acidity. every fish has they're own requirements for these factors, some are more fussy than others, many things in your tank (e.g. bogwood, gravel, plants) can have an effect on your pH in some way so it can fluctuate, particularly in new tanks you should monitor it to see if there are significant fluctuations hwich oculd affect your fish. in a mature tank you don't need to test for it all the time.
ammonia - this is what fish produce, they're waste, combined with things like dying plants and uneaten food, breaks down into ammonia. Even a small reading of ammonia is very bad for your fish so particularly in new tanks, this should be monitored.
in your filter bacteria grow which 'eat' the ammonia and convert it into nitrite
nitrite - this is the by product of the ammonia eating bacteria, it is just as dangerous to fish as ammonia is so should be monitored for in new tanks.
in your filter a second species of bacteria grow wich 'eat' the nitrite and convert it into nitrate
nitrate - this is the by product of the nitrite eating bacteria, it is still dangerous to fish but significantly less so than ammonia or nitrite, there is evidence that readings of up to 400ppm can be tolerated, however most advise is to keep it closer to 40ppm or less. nitrate is removed by water changes, plants will also use it as fertilisation.
hope that explains why you need to monitor all 4 levels, particularly in new tanks (although in mature tanks they should still be checked periodically and at the first sign of disease you should test all levels)
regarding your particular fish and hardness
mollies prefer hard water, neon's prefer soft (i think) but should be able to tolerate it
glass cats i'm not familiar with their requirements but you can check in teh fish species index and you'd need to tell us the species for your other cats for us to tell you.
my cat fish looks like: http
/www.dkimages.com/discover/Home/Anim...lking-Ca-1.html
White-spotted-Talking-Catfish
/www.dkimages.com/discover/Home/Anim...lking-Ca-1.htmlWhite-spotted-Talking-Catfish
If you presumably use tapwater with a water conditioner you should have the same hardness as this tapwater. You try to find out from your water company how hard the water is. That is Web site or a phone call to customer services.
Or post your area and people near to you can tell you. London and the southeast got relatively hard water fro example.
Then, there are test kits from about £ 5 to £ 10. Look for GH that is for freshwater the usual General Hardness. They are relatively exact as you prepare a liquid and then count the drops until this liquid changes from one colour to another. It's fun, too.
Our daughter likes that. 
Or post your area and people near to you can tell you. London and the southeast got relatively hard water fro example.
Then, there are test kits from about £ 5 to £ 10. Look for GH that is for freshwater the usual General Hardness. They are relatively exact as you prepare a liquid and then count the drops until this liquid changes from one colour to another. It's fun, too.
Our daughter likes that.
Miss Wiggle
Practically perfect in every way
ok your catfish wants a pH of 6 - 7.5 http/www.planetcatfish.com/catelog/speci...?species_id=313
/www.planetcatfish.com/catelog/speci...?species_id=313If you search this forum for "London GH", you'll get this thread for example:
[URL="http/www.fishforums.net/content/forum/111197/Tap-Water-Parameters-Decisions/"]http/www.fishforums.net/content/forum/11...ters-Decisions/[/URL]
There is a user Bloo from London who posts KH and GH from tapwater.
[URL="http
/www.fishforums.net/content/forum/111197/Tap-Water-Parameters-Decisions/"]http/www.fishforums.net/content/forum/11...ters-Decisions/[/URL]There is a user Bloo from London who posts KH and GH from tapwater.
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