Hard Water Difficulties

fishfriendlyones

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We are having difficulty regulating the hard water from the tap and the fish in our tropical tank appear to be struggling. We tried a filtration system for the tap water, but that is making the fish worse and more diseased. Any suggestions?
thanks.
 
Please fill this out to help us help you;

Tank size:
pH:
ammonia:
nitrite:
nitrate:
kH:
gH:
tank temp:

Fish Symptoms (include full description including lesion, color, location, fish behavior):

Volume and Frequency of water changes:

Chemical Additives or Media in your tank:

Tank inhabitants:

Recent additions to your tank (living or decoration):

Exposure to chemicals:

Digital photo (include if possible):

Adjusting water hardness is as bad as trying to adjust pH, it causes swings that are rougher on the fish than adjusting to a constant, though high or low parameter. Most commonly available fish can acclimate to a wide range of hardness & pH, before you try to adjust hardness it is important to rule out something else that may be quite easy to fix, as most anything is easier than adjusting hardness or pH.
 
Please fill this out to help us help you;

Tank size: 20 gallons
pH:7.5
ammonia:?unsure - think normal limits
nitrite:0
nitrate:40
kH:80
gH:180+
tank temp:? normal range

Fish Symptoms (include full description including lesion, color, location, fish behavior): closed fins, some skin irritation

Volume and Frequency of water changes:1/3 tank weekly, tried using a water filter for hardness - fish got worse, just tried using some distilled water - doesn't seem to be making a difference, also tried a water hardness cushion with little to no change in stats

Chemical Additives or Media in your tank: stress coat, water conditioner, aquarium salt

Tank inhabitants: mollies, platys, swordtails, mystery snails, cory cat

Recent additions to your tank (living or decoration): a couple of hi fin platys

Exposure to chemicals:

Digital photo (include if possible):

Adjusting water hardness is as bad as trying to adjust pH, it causes swings that are rougher on the fish than adjusting to a constant, though high or low parameter. Most commonly available fish can acclimate to a wide range of hardness & pH, before you try to adjust hardness it is important to rule out something else that may be quite easy to fix, as most anything is easier than adjusting hardness or pH.
 
Have you actually tested your water yourself?

I live in a 'hard water area' but I emailed my water supplier with my postcode and actually the water in my road is soft.
 
Depending on what species cory catfish you have, all of those fish will do very well in hard water. The livebearers do very well in hard water, so that is not the issue at all.

You need to find that ammonia reading. Especially with some recent editions, I'm willing to bet that there is ammonia and that is what is bothering the fish the most. There are no "normal limits" to ammonia, unless you consider zero ammonia to be the limit. If there is ammonia in the tank, the fish are being poisoned. It would be best if you could get your own ammonia test kit, a liquid test if at all possible because the dip strip tests are fairly unreliable. If you don't want to get your own test kit, take a sample of the tank water to your LFS and ask them to test it for you. Make sure you ask for the specific concentration of the test result, not just "low" or "high".

Also, how many of each fish do you have? That could be a lot of fish for a 20 gallon tank, depending on the numbers.

Lastly, especially with the hard water, you won't need any salt in your tank. The cory catfish are especially intolerant of salt, they originate from some of the most mineral-free waters on the planet. Some species can handle hard water reasonably well, but none of them can handle salt. Their bodies just never developed the mechanism to deal with salt because salt was never in their environment ever. The livebearers are more tolerant of salt, some of them can even live in brackish waters for a long time.

I would start doing small but frequent water changes to dilute the ammonia and to dilute the salt out of the water. You should be able to use your tap water for this. Small in that I'd do a gallon or two, but I'd try to do it around twice a day (in the morning and in the afternoon). Make sure that the temperature of the new water is pretty close the tank water temperature.

When you get your water tested, and if it isn't ammonia, then we can suggest a different course of action. But, that seems the most likely to me at this time.
 
hard water is not easy to adjust/regulate so i would worry more about the ammonia levels and other factors of your tank that could be easily controlled.. frequent water changes work best with adjusting and bringing down the ammonia levels and try not to use chemicals as they will add to the osmotic pressure in the tank and cause more stress on the fish
 
try buying fish that are young and not wild caught and they can adjust to suit your water easier,
 
and try not to use chemicals as they will add to the osmotic pressure in the tank and cause more stress on the fish

Ok, I'm sorry if this is off-topic to the OP, but I feel that this statement needs to be corrected.

Firstly, what is right, the addition of chemicals or anything dissolved in the water, does indeed increase the osmotic pressure of the water. That is a fact that can be found in any physical chemistry textbook.

However, the internal fluids of a fish also have dissolved minerals in them, and in fact, usually at quite a higher concentration than their surrounding water. So, actually the addition of chemicals to the water, brings the tank's osmotic pressure closer to the osmotic pressure of the fish. It actually lowers the stress on a fish -- but I am specifically using stress in the mechanical sense of the term, like the pressure stress or the shearing stress.

Now, this is actually not really a good thing for the fish. It lived it's entire life with this osmotic stress/pressure, and so did all of it's ancestors. The fish evolved in this ostmoticially stressed environment. It does not need to be relieved of of this stress, any more than humans need to be relieved of the stress of the atmosphere pushing on us. People actually get elevation sickness when they travel to high altitudes in no small part because of the lack of pressure. (Yes, the lack of oxygen too. But, they did the pressure experiments with the astronauts to see if they would have to completely pressurize the space vessels. For them not to suffer altitude sickness, the answer is yes, they have to pressurize the space vessels pretty close to 1 atmosphere of pressure). The atmosphere pushes down on us with 14.7 pounds of force per square inch. I used to write find a 15 pound 1 inch cube and put it on your leg and feel just how heavy that really is, but I thought of a new one just the other day. I was holding my fiance's cat, who weighs about 16 pounds. If you hold him so that only one paw -- which is about one inch square in area -- touches you, you can feel just how heavy one atmosphere of pressure really is. But, we've lived with that pressure, that stress, out entire lives. We've grown adapted to it. We don't need to be relieved of it any more than the fish need to be relieved of the osmotic stress.

You don't need to invoke osmotic stresses to recommend against putting chemicals in a tank. The simpler reason is just that adding chemicals is unnatural, and most of us keep fishtanks to try to keep a little slice of nature in our homes. The chemicals can sometimes wear out (like a pH adjuster) and cause the tank readings to fluctuate. Other chemicals can do their job well, but stimulate large growths of algae.

It is usually more hassle than it is worth, because fish are very adaptable. Especially the common fish you have, fishfriendlyones. They are adaptable to a very wide range of water conditions -- you goal is to keep those conditions constant. Fluctuating conditions are stressful on fish (and here I am using stressful in the sense of weakening their immune system, NOT the mechanical sense).
 
well hey there bignose contrary to what my library book has said i think i like your rationalization a bit better.. thanks for the tip
 
chee, what book? Can you tell me exactly where in the book it says that? Better yet, can you quote the relevant part to the forum? (If you only quote a paragraph or so, there is no copyright violation, so long as you cite the book properly. Name of the book, name of the author(s), what year is was published is good enough). I'd really like to see it and see if the author(s) back their claim up with good sources. Thanks.
 

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