GuppyDude's Spawn Journal Thingy

[Joby]

Awww sorry to hear you lost them

I wonder if the bbs were too large for them to eat I offer microworms from free-swimming stage and then bbs from a week old and they are just about the right size to eat them then. Although have heard of people offering bbs from early on too.

Good point also from ManyFISH4Me about the water quality, its why I've lost fry overnight before

 

[Naughtygirlrlw]

I am so sorry GuppyDude...I know how excited you were for this.
RIP lil' beebees

 

[afireinside]

I'm sorry GuppyDude :rip Lil fishies. A little advice, never breed bettas that have more than 90% black.

 

[SRC]

Sorry about your babies GD. You tried hard though, can't blame yourself.

The water quality may have been an issue, but he only had 10 fry not 100...so...that doesn't seem likely, but possible.

How were the water parameters before you bred? What was the water temp? Did you add anything like IAL or Black Water Extract (I think that's what it's called) to the water? Are you sure the BBS were de-capsulated?

Maybe next time you should try the egg yolk method, or the microworms, if they aren't eating the bbs.



Dude, lay off the black. That is NOT what caused it. Have you not read anything anyone has posted about Blacks? Have you not done anymore research, then just in whatever book that is you say you have?

#1. The problem only occurs when trying to breed with a pure black melano female (not a marble black or a melano geno female) ..the male plays no role in the problem. #2. The egg's not hatching is the problem with blacks; because the eggs either rupture or are not fertilized..not that the fry die after hatching due to having some mystery genetic disease.

The melanophores from melanos grow very differently from that seen in black lace and wild type. They pile up and are very sticky, which is why they produce such a dense black. If you were to look closely at a melano, you would notice that they have a lot of speckling throughout their fins that that make them look so dark. These are 'balls' of melanophores.

Preliminary studies have shown that these melanophores have extra adhesion proteins. One hypothesis is that these proteins are also responsible for female infertility. Melano females will produce eggs during the act of spawning like a normal female, but something happens during the hatching process that causes the fertilized egg to rupture.
http/bettysplendens.com/articles/page.asp?articleid=5162
http/www.bettadreams.com/blackgenetics.html
http/vanriel.myadsl.nl/BT-AABcolorgenetics.htm
http/www.aquarticles.com/articles/breedi..._splendens.html

I dunno what book you have..but you should do some other research before telling someone they have done something wrong.

 

[wuvmybetta]

I'm sorry to hear this, GD. I don't think it has anything to do with water quality personally. If you remember my accidental spawn a few weeks ago,with around 8 fry who hatched in a jar with like 5 ounces of water....? They became free swimming there,too. I raised them in a one gallon for the first couple of weeks and I'll admit that water changes on them were anything but graceful and all have survived.

Maybe, just maybe, it has something to do with the well water. What does your PH test at?
Is it possible for you to use bottled water for your next spawn tank? Perhaps hatch them in that and slowly ween them into your well water...?

 

[afireinside]

Ya, that is a good idea, since Bottled water is usually purified.

 

[GuppyDude]

oppositearmor i appritate your help with the black genetics, you know more about it than i do im sure, but this spawn was done between a crimson male ct and a multicolored female ct, none had any black geno in them.

the water was just well water with a weak amount of meth blue, and a conditioner/stress coat called "stress-x". ph has never been a problem for any of my fish so i figured it was between 7-8 i dont have any test kits here, but i will be buying one when i try this again. i have great reason to beleive that this does have something to do with teh water and i will be monitoring it ver closely next time. i like wuv's idea of slowing getting them used to well water, i know my adult bettas do pretty good in it but purhaps the lil fry cant cope with the higher ph lvls.

food size may have been and issue, the bbs did seem a little too large for them to take, i will have to buy another MW culture eventually I guess as i threw my old one out.

ty guys for your thoghts, iv probably learned just about everything i know about fish from trial and error, this just shows that not much has changedand purhaps i will have better luck next time

 

[Synirr]

If I were to take a guess, I'd say it's due to the meth blue. I could very easily be wrong about that, but as delicate as bettas fry are I'd never chance using any sort of chemical in their water apart from dechlor unless there was an outbreak of disease.

 

[SRC]

But isn't Methylene Blue made specifically for fry and eggs..made as a fungus prevenative?

Look at bottle in her medicine chest.....**reads **

Directions: To aid in general disease prevention, detoxification of fishes suffering form nitrite or cyanide poisoning and for use as a prophylaxis against fungus infections of fish spawns (eggs), add 1 tsp per 10 gallons of water (this produces 3ppm methylene blue).  Remove carbon from filters but keep all fitration running.  Replace carbon after completion of the treatment.  can be combined with Kordon's Acriflavine and NovAqua when used as a prevenative, especially with newly hatched fry.

So how much MB did you use GD?

I also read this after doing a short research stint just now...

Egg Fungus:

Egg fungus is very common. As a preventative, keeping developing eggs in a dilute (medium blue) methylene blue solution with aeration for a few days (remove before hatching is expected as methylene blue may harm fry) seems to work. Most often, unfertilized or injured eggs are attacked by fungus. If the parent cares for the eggs like many cichlids and the fathead minnow, then the parent in charge will remove these eggs. Otherwise, you must do it. Methylene blue can aid in the process. Those eggs taking on the blue dye are compromised (infertile or have holes in them) and need to be removed. Without the dye, remove any eggs that are clouded (white) or obviously fungused. Tweezers work well for attached eggs while glass or plastic pipets work well for free (scattered) eggs. If the fungus gets out of control (when methylene blue is not used), all viable (usually clear with small eyes forming; some species like some cories may have colored eggs) eggs should be removed to a fresh setup with water of similar temperature, pH, etc. Fry should be removed to separate quarters as well because young fry can die from the egg fungus.
http/www.fishpondinfo.com/health2.htm

Seems what's good for eggs is not so good for fry...

Water, Lids, and Water Depth

Before you add the fry or eggs, fill the tank either with water from a healthy setup tank or start fresh. If you start fresh to lessen chances of bad organisms from a lively tank, heavily aerate the water for at least a few hours and add about 1 Tablespoons per 5-10 gallons salt (either specifically for freshwater fish or marine salt; do not add lots of salt to tanks of fish that do not like salt such as most catfish), dechlorinator, and anything else you desire like bacteria (Stress-Zyme or related products). Cover the tank with plexiglass or glass to keep moisture in and other pets (if any) out. Catfish and labyrinth fry especially will gulp air. If they are in 75 degree F water and gulp 65 degree F air, they could die. Catfish and labyrinth fish should be in shallow water (under 6 inches) for their first few weeks so they can gulp air easily. Most other fish can have up to a foot or more in depth and survive. Most egg-laid fry swim at the surface anyway.

Any of that happen or sound faimliar GD?

 

[Synirr]

Fry don't develop their labyrinth organs until the 4th week, so that can't be it...

 

[afireinside]

Really, I thought it was six weeks. Maybe it just varies for the type of betta.

 

[GuppyDude]

i suspect teh reason why only 10 eggs hatched and the rest fungused was because i did not use the proper amount of blue meth, the fry showed no sighns of fungus on them but then again they were very small, iv always been afraid as blue meth as it turns the wtaer blue and i cant see much, really bothers me next time i will be sueing an even stronger dose.