Guppy Troubles

[Spishkey]

ok over the past 2 weeks ive lost maybe 5 guppys without reason. now this weekend i have had 2 show some strange symptoms.
one moment they are fine, the next they have trouble swimming, float around at the surface, then spiral downwards very fast, when they hit the bottom they dart all over the tank in a manic fashion and spiral everywhere.

the first to show these symptoms was a male, he's been like this two days now. ive had him around 3 months and no other problems.

the second to go down with it is a new addition. a female, who i only added around 6pm last night.

the tank is 60L with about 30 guppys in (mostly small wild type guppys not the big hormone dosed giant ones you find in an lfs)
i cant get water stats right this second as im at work but can give them when i get home.

when i tested last week after the first deaths all waters stats were normal (ammonia 0, nitrite 0 nitrate 5)

temp was at 28 but i gradually lowered it to 25 over the course of a few days this weekend.

could it be swim bladder problems caused by a bacterial infection seeing as so many fish are dying? they feed fine but just seem to exhaust themselves then give up

 

[Spishkey]

well im gonna go ahead and at least treat the two quarantined ones with an anti bac med.

i tried the pea trick but it hasnt done anything to help so gona go in and dose them


if anyone has any other ideas what it could be and if my others are in danger, please let me know. should i medicate the whole tank?

 

[WILDER]

That alot of guppys in the tank szie.
Are you sure water stats are fine.
swim bladder can be caused by bad water quality, bad diet of to many dried foods, birth defect, injury, internal parasites, bacterial.
What do you feed your fish, any freeze dried foods.
Do the fish look bloated or skinny.

 

[Athena]

Have you noticed the sick fish having sunken bellies at all? What about their fins - are any looking shredded or raggedy? And any breathing problems (i.e. rapid gill movements or gasping at top)?

Also, when you tested your water what type of test kit did you use?

Athena

 

[Spishkey]

fish look as healthy as can be. they get dried food (flakes) as their main diet, with bloodworm 1 x per week, daphnia mix 1x per week and chopped raw/par boiled veg a few evenings a week.

i dont think its too many guppys causing the problem, the majority are very small compared to shop bought guppys ( i had 4 shop bought males three of which have died, the last remaining is the one on quarantine). my water stats i gave are from last week when i get home tonight i shall take them again.

i cant think what else it could be to strike one of the new fish already? in less than 12hours the new fish was affected?

no bloating, none looking skinny, so i ruiled out worms/parasites. poo is normal, no white stringy stuff.

the male who is in quarantine, and the male who died before him both had minor rips in their tails but fins are/were fine.

the female in quarantine does gasp at the top and has slightly red inflamed gills but the male doesnt. none of the previous deaths showed this symptom.

test kit is a liquid test kit (sera?)



edit- have phoned bf to get me water stats and try and send me some photos of the affected fish.

 

[WILDER]

Red inflamed gills can be bad water quality, bacterial gill rot to flukes.
Signs of flukes are.

Pale gils with excess slime, or red inflamed gills.
Opaque body with excess slime.
Flicking and rubbing.
Gasping at surface of tank or laboured breathing.
Swimming in a jerky movement.
Sores on body of fish.
Spitting food out.
Weightloss sometimes.
Darting or erratic swimming.

 

[Spishkey]

Pale gils with excess slime NO, or red inflamed gills. YES (FEMALE ONLY)
Opaque body with excess slime. NO
Flicking and rubbing. NO
Gasping at surface of tank or laboured breathing. YES (FEMALE ONLY)
Swimming in a jerky movement. YES (MALE + FEMALE)
Sores on body of fish. NO
Spitting food out. NO
Weightloss sometimes. NO
Darting or erratic swimming. YES (FEMALE ONLY)

 

[WILDER]

Ok it sounds like flukes but would of expected to see flicking and rubbing.
Darting, swimming in a jerky movement, red inflamed gills, laboured breathing are symtoms of flukes.
Is it possible to wrap the fish in a cloth soaked in tank water.
Steralise some tweezers.
Pull the gill flap back and with a magifying glass look to see if you can see any tiny white worms.

 

[Spishkey]

oh gosh do i really have to do that? will it not hurt the fish?? *is squeamish*

will ask boyfriend to do it!

would gill flukes be able to infect a fish in 12 hours?

 

[WILDER]

Its the jerky swimming movement that pointing to flukes.
Its going to be hard on such a small fish.
Yes gill flukes infect other fish too, that why you have to treat the whole tank.
Plus flukes take some time getting rid of them.

 

[Tolak]

I've seen velvet (oodinium) cause this in overstocked breeding situations. It will manifest mainly in the gills, long before any sort of gold dusting is seen on the body, especially fry. Hanging & darting towards the surface, tearing around the tank, then resting, apparently exhausted.

Copper sulfate will take care of this, but can only be used in harder water, 50ppm+. 200ppm or better is ideal, for fry use it at half strength.

If you have never used it before get a copper test kit as well, there is a narrow range, 0.15-0.20ppm, that is effective. Too much will burn fish, and any amount will kill inverts. Use only in a clean bare tank, as it will be absorbed by algae, only to be released again when the algae dies, increasing the level.

 

[Spishkey]

i had a look last night on the male, no worms to be seen in the gills. i think i hurt it though as he looks on the verge of death this morning. good news is the female looks bright and perky!

i cant currently treat that tank with copper ulphate tolak as i have a few baby crayfish in there, im guessing that treatment would kill them? i can try taking them out but have no where else to put them and they hide in the gravel so im scared of stressing the fish. would it be safe to move the guppys into buckets in a warm room and treat them there? i have airpumps but they would be unfiltered.

id wouldnt call the tank overstocked surely there would be water issues?
water stats still holding at 0 ammonia 0 nitrite but nitrate was up to 10, im guessing this was due to the new fish added 2 days ago?

 

[Spishkey]

well no improvement today, poor things are still spinning when they are not just floating around the top.


do you think i should put them out of their misery?



if so whats the best way, i have no clove oil.

also the female is nearing the end of her pregnancy, should i keep her going until, see if she delivers, or just let her go?

 

[WILDER]

Any signs of flicking and rubbing.
Used any chemicals near the tank.
Can you post your water stats please.
Any excess mucas on the gills or body.

 

[Spishkey]

Any signs of flicking and rubbing. nope
Used any chemicals near the tank. nope
Can you post your water stats please. ammonia 0 nitrite 0 nitrate 5
Any excess mucas on the gills or body. nope