Guppy Trouble

[Gilead]

I have wanted a tank for years and have finally convinced my wife to let me have one. I had 9 Neons and 4 male Guppies originally. One male Guppy died a couple of weeks after I got the fish but the others seemed to settle okay and the Neons began to get more confident swimming about in the tank; however, over the past week to 10 days I have noticed that the Guppies tails were starting to look ragged and the Neons had taken to hiding at the back of the tank. My wife asked her father to take a look at the tank suspecting we had white spot on the Neons and that the Guppies had got fin rot. After taking a look he said that it looked liked we'd got a bully amongst the Guppies and that it looked as though the Neon's were getting picked on as well, the stress of which had probably brought on the white spot.

We have now had two lots of advice on how to solve the problem and was hoping for any suggestions of which lot of advice to follow. My wife's father suggested we get some female Guppies, preferably at a ratio of 3 female:1 male but with the size of tank we'd have to go for a 1:1 or 2:1 ratio. Having visited our local fish store they suggested that getting females could lead to it's own problems with the males harrassing the females to death. There suggestion was to purchase more male Guppies to allieviate some of the pecking order problem and feed them less food on a more regular basis to try and get them content in their surroundings. Please could someone help us with which option we should take. In the last 12 hours we have lost 2 Neons having had their tail fins completely removed through bullying, we'd rather not lose any more fish if we can help it.

Cheers for the advice

 

[chillerbass]

I have wanted a tank for years and have finally convinced my wife to let me have one. I had 9 Neons and 4 male Guppies originally. One male Guppy died a couple of weeks after I got the fish but the others seemed to settle okay and the Neons began to get more confident swimming about in the tank; however, over the past week to 10 days I have noticed that the Guppies tails were starting to look ragged and the Neons had taken to hiding at the back of the tank. My wife asked her father to take a look at the tank suspecting we had white spot on the Neons and that the Guppies had got fin rot. After taking a look he said that it looked liked we'd got a bully amongst the Guppies and that it looked as though the Neon's were getting picked on as well, the stress of which had probably brought on the white spot.

We have now had two lots of advice on how to solve the problem and was hoping for any suggestions of which lot of advice to follow. My wife's father suggested we get some female Guppies, preferably at a ratio of 3 female:1 male but with the size of tank we'd have to go for a 1:1 or 2:1 ratio. Having visited our local fish store they suggested that getting females could lead to it's own problems with the males harrassing the females to death. There suggestion was to purchase more male Guppies to allieviate some of the pecking order problem and feed them less food on a more regular basis to try and get them content in their surroundings. Please could someone help us with which option we should take. In the last 12 hours we have lost 2 Neons having had their tail fins completely removed through bullying, we'd rather not lose any more fish if we can help it.

Cheers for the advice

do what i did get the bully out and but another i had a gold dust molly and that wouldnt leave my fighting fish alone and it died within a week of stress also the fins where they were nipped as white where theyd grown back

then 2 days later my guppy with a very big tail got the same treatment he died yesterday
so the molly had to go and its so much better with out it


so id say knock it on the head get rid of it so it doesnt lose you more fish

 

[Kizz]

If you buy females Your going to end up with the problem of fry yes the parents will eat some but there will be a few that survive aswell .

In my opinion if you think the neons have whitespot i would treat for that rather than adding anymore stock because you will just end up infecting them aswell .

Having a ratio of 1:1 won't really help the situation as the males will still fight for the top dog position . I would return the aggresive male and 1 other male and then get 6 females if this is really the route you want to go down

How large is your tank ?
Do you know your water stat's?
What temp do you have it at ?

If the fins are looking nipped do regular water changes which will help rectify them . Whitespot can be treated numerous ways and it's one thing i've never had a problem with as my tank temp is too high for it to survive . So you could try raising your tank temp by a few degree's mine currently sit's at 27/28oC

 

[Gilead]

We've had the water tested today and the Ammonia level is too high, not sure on the exact stats as we've not yet got a testing kit ourselves. Told we can't treat the white spot or add any fresh fish until the Ammonia level reduces; adviced to use bactinettes to hepl speed this process up.

Water temp is 25-26oC and the tank is just under 30 ltr.

What I don't understand is how the shops are able to have all male tanks and don't seem to have a problem, unless its because there are so many that a pecking order isn't able to establish itself. Would rather stick to males if possible, but will do what is best for the fish.

 

[Kizz]

How long has your tank been set up ?

I would suggest investing in a liquid test kit you can get them for around 20-25 quid from most pet shops . Do regular water changes to keep the ammonia under control

The bactinettes will do virtually nothing for your tank ...All those Instant cycle/Bacteria in a bottle is a load of tosh . Invest in the test kit API is the one most people on here use keep on top of your water changes testing your water around an hour or so after a water change then 12 hours after so you can find out how quickly the ammonia is building up .

Did the LFS test for nitrIte and nirtrAte? If possible can you go to LFS and get them to write the reading down for you

The adding of fish is correct but increasing the temperature should kill the parasite off more quickly, because it will speed up the life cycle of the parasite, so that the free-swimming stage is reached as quickly as possible - this is the only stage affected by meds. However increasing the temperature means there will be less oxygen dissolved in the water so ensure the tank is well aerated and do not raise the temperature beyond around 28oC

I do know you can add salt to your tank to help rid the whitespot but not sure on the methods will go have a wee read on it for you and post my findings

 

[Kizz]

Found this bit of info Can't link as it's another forum so will just post the info


White Spot;

White spot is a Protozoan disease.
"Protozoans are organisms, such as cryptosporidium, that have a life-cycle with several stages.


As the name suggests (white spot), the fish is covered, head to tail, in small white spots/dots which are small organisms surviving by using a fish as host. The spots stay on the fish for 24 to 48 hours, and then they fall off into the substrate and then breed producing more organisms which then they search for another host to survive, which has to be with in 24 hours or the organism dies.

Treating white spot isn’t as easy as you would of thought, because the organisms attach them self’s to the fish rather than the mucus surrounding, it is impossible to kill it while it is on the fish as the fish's coating are protecting the organism and therefore the only way to kill it off is to kill it while it is off the fish.

Treatments:
Salt bath - 1 teaspoon per gallon, this works as a good general treatment and helps to distress the fish, but often salt is not affective enough. See Goldy's post on using salt(

Protozin treatment- (malachite green and quinine sulphate), there are some treatments already made up by leading companies like Waterlife's Protozin which is effective to kill the organisms which you should be able to buy at your local fish store.

Increasing the temperature- at 80oF, white spot has the shortest life cycle and will be "flake" off the fish a lot faster than a colder or warmer temperature. This can be done easily by increasing the dial on a heater.

Moving the fish- There is also the option to move the fish to another tank at the same time during every day, when the fish has less spots on its body, every 12-24 hours as you would stop the cycle.

This can be done easily by increasing the dial on a heater.

Methylene Blue- Like salt, it is also a good general treatment, but it is a lot better at killing white spot, it will also improve gill efficiency. Methylene Blue is available from chemists and some aquatic stores.

One thing you need to remember is that white spot can stay dormant on a fish, and if the fish is stressed too much, white spot can return.

 

[cowboy507]

You cant add salt to neons!!!!
I would get rid of the aggressive guppy.
you should also read up on fish-in cycling at the top of the beginners section on here. this will help a lot.

 

[OldMan47]

Gilead, the best advice and desciption of white spot treatment options can be reached by a link in my signature area. It is marked Ich Info. The article there describes the whole life cycle of the ich parasite and gives a few treatment options that you might want to consider. I chose to do the salt treatment the only time that I saw ich in my tanks and had a good outcome but it is not the only treatment that is discussed.