Guppies Keep Dying On Me :-(

[locust267]

Hi,

some of you may have seen some of my many other questions I need answers to.

For about a month or two now my male guppies have been taking it in turns to act very sluggish, hide, have the appearance to not be able to swim but then start again and have what appears a broken back as their tail becomes very limp.

I have looked around online and some places say that it is fish TB others say that they were born like it (they were fine before) and others say the fish may of injured itself - But all 5?

I now have 2 left who for the moment seem healthy although the others were fine and all of a sudden they would slow down and then die, so I am worried for the 2 that is left.

I posted another topic about the nitrite possibly being too high - Would nitrite being high have these symptoms in the guppy?

Thanks for advice

Vicki

 

[locust267]

Water tests done today revealed Nitrite at Omg, Nitrate at 0mg and ammonia at 0. The pH is around 8.

Just want to ensure the 2 I have left will survive

 

[three-fingers]

Yeah...your going to want to do big daily water changes (over 50%) of that and use some seachem prime to make sure that nitrite is non toxic until you get your tank sorted.

It's not cycled yet, and you are currently ding a fish-in cycle .

Read here . I know it's long, but it's vital you understand this if you want to keep your guppies alive.

 

[locust267]

I've read plenty about fish-less cycle as I started looking online last year tank set up on Dec 26th 2007) and the tank was set up for at least 6 weeks before any danio's went in. Then another 2 weeks etc. However so much conflicting advice that now I look back and MAY of made slight mistakes, however...

Sorry to seem a bit ignorant but I though after the amount of time I have been running my tank that the figures I posted above for nitrite and ammonia are spot on? Is it the nitrate that is causing the problem?

Many Thanks

Vicki

 

[dunchp]

I am not an expert on guppies, but as no one else is going to answer then I thought I would give it a shot.

Firstly, I am not too sure that there is a definitive answer to your question - one of the problems with guppies is that they are often of poor quality. My advice to anyone who wants to keep guppies is to put in a little more effort and get stocks from a local breeder rather than from a fish shop, there is little point getting poor stocks when there are some excellent, hardy stocks obtainable in the UK.

Secondly, it is not clear whether the drooping tail and arched back is a symptom of the disease or a secondary sign that the fish is unwell, but it is certainly a sign that all is not what it seems. Fancy guppies have far larger tails than normal wild guppies and this could just be that the ill fish is having difficulty keeping the tail upright.

As for the cycling the tank; I do not buy it that this is the cause. The tank has been stocked for a period of a month or two and therefore any problems caused by not cycling the tank properly would have long since passed.

TB is a possibility, if it is then I am afraid you do not have any control over the outcome. It could also be water parameters, temperature (the tank may be too hot or too cold) or could be some other factor such as pH (although the pH seems high, it may not be too high); or they could have been diseased when you bought them.

My advice would be to keep doing what you are doing, good husbandry can make the difference with poor quality guppies, check the temperature which should be around the mid 70s and join a club like the BLA so you can get good stocks and learn from the experts rather than on some forum.

 

[locust267]

Thanks Dunchp, that info is really really useful. I need to do a little more reading on the pH side of things but believe it is because I had a poor stock.

Someone else mentioned to me that sometimes fish bred for their multi-colours (if not done by an expert) are usually very poor quality (although they look great) and will not last long. Mine were from a fish shop that now I dont use any longer and were VERY colourful.

I dont hold out much hope for the 2 I have left but will try my best and you never know

Thanks again

 

[dunchp]

Hi Vicki,

I reckon you are well advised to take on board half or less of whatever you are told. There is some really good advice out there, but the best advice is the stuff you work out for yourself. Quite frankly, some of it is just rubbish.

For instance, it is not the breeding for the colours which make these fish poor quality, there are plenty of really, really beautiful guppies out there which are fantastic colours and which are really good quality. It is probably the indescriminate breeding in foreign fishfarms that has caused weakened strains.

Similarly, there is often no obvious explanation for deaths such as your fishes; there are plenty of suggestions as to what could have happened but try not to get too hung up on finding an explanation. The best you can do is to work out a good husbandry regime and try not to veer off too much; everything else is chance and often success with fishes is completely out of your hands.

The only advice I would give is to find some local breeders and see if you can get to see how they do things. I am not sure where you are in the country, but if you want me to direct you towards someone then do drop me a PM and I will see what I can do. Failing that, there is a good article in the BLA magazine this month of how to raise guppies but you will have to join to get that.

www.britishlivebearerassociation.co.uk

 

[Dan81192]

May sounds stupid but why not try a different shop for the fish?

 

[kribensis12]

^ good colored guppies are inbred to get the color vareiation, i dont think that is rubbish at all. I know from first hand that inbreeding is the problem. I dont know where you got the whole "there are plenty of very pretty real good quality ones out there". Every fish store i've been to ( thats about 12) have had rubbish guppies. I've never been abel to keep male guppies alive more than 2 weeks at the most( sometimes 3 weeks). I have nboticed the females have a lower mortality rate. I bought originally 8 guppies, and now i have 1. She is doing fine for now.( fingers crossed). Yeah, there are some god quality pretty 100 dollar male female trio's out there. But i dont know many people able to afford them.

Anyways, your tank readings worry me. You shuold never, never ever haev 0 nitrates. That means you arent cycled, if there is ammonia in the tank, it should be converted to nitrtie, then nitrate, which is reduced during water changes. But unless you are doing 50 percent water changes twice a day, you should haev any nitrates, even then you might have aorund 2. I dont think your done cycling. I would not purchase any more guppies and take the rest back until your cycled properly. Plus, i would just buy a few female, and no male. Let them have babies, and then keep the babies, one of them is bound to be male. I have had a MUCH HIGHER succeses rate with maels and feamles if i breed them at home. Right now i ahve 1 month old babies in a breeder and i havent had one die since there were in there( not including the LARGE amount of still borns). Another thing inbreeding does to them is makes them more subceptable to diseases and hard to transport. Even a minute change in water, or just the stress of being moved can get them sick, or just kill them from the stress.

 

[fish48]

^ good colored guppies are inbred to get the color vareiation, i dont think that is rubbish at all. I know from first hand that inbreeding is the problem. I dont know where you got the whole "there are plenty of very pretty real good quality ones out there". Every fish store i've been to ( thats about 12) have had rubbish guppies. I've never been abel to keep male guppies alive more than 2 weeks at the most( sometimes 3 weeks). I have nboticed the females have a lower mortality rate. I bought originally 8 guppies, and now i have 1. She is doing fine for now.( fingers crossed). Yeah, there are some god quality pretty 100 dollar male female trio's out there. But i dont know many people able to afford them.

Anyways, your tank readings worry me. You shuold never, never ever haev 0 nitrates. That means you arent cycled, if there is ammonia in the tank, it should be converted to nitrtie, then nitrate, which is reduced during water changes. But unless you are doing 50 percent water changes twice a day, you should haev any nitrates, even then you might have aorund 2. I dont think your done cycling. I would not purchase any more guppies and take the rest back until your cycled properly. Plus, i would just buy a few female, and no male. Let them have babies, and then keep the babies, one of them is bound to be male. I have had a MUCH HIGHER succeses rate with maels and feamles if i breed them at home. Right now i ahve 1 month old babies in a breeder and i havent had one die since there were in there( not including the LARGE amount of still borns). Another thing inbreeding does to them is makes them more subceptable to diseases and hard to transport. Even a minute change in water, or just the stress of being moved can get them sick, or just kill them from the stress.

Hi kribensis inbreeding is not the problem

inbreeding do not make them more subceptable to diseases and hard to transport in the past 6 months I have had 8 difrent strains of guppies from fish breeders some have been sent by post all fish were in perfect condition and have all had young I don’t hav any problems with diseases or still bornse and cant remember the last time I found a deformed fry.

 

[kribensis12]

inbreeding do not make them more subceptable to diseases

Where did you hear that from? Ever wonder why people dont usually marry inside thier own family? There kids have a high chance of getting a birth defect of some kind. It could be that yours are not as inbred, or a really hardy fish. Where are you from? I've heard UK guppies are better. American ones suck terribly. I suggest you do a little research on genetics. Yes inbreeding is harmful to fish, makese them more subceptable to disaeses, which makes them harder to transport.

 

[dunchp]

inbreeding do not make them more subceptable to diseases

Where did you hear that from? Ever wonder why people dont usually marry inside thier own family? There kids have a high chance of getting a birth defect of some kind. It could be that yours are not as inbred, or a really hardy fish. Where are you from? I've heard UK guppies are better. American ones suck terribly. I suggest you do a little research on genetics. Yes inbreeding is harmful to fish, makese them more subceptable to disaeses, which makes them harder to transport.

For pity's sake, will someone please change the record!!! Kribensis, your comments 'I suggest you do a little research on genetics' are patronising and a little offensive, especially considering you have no idea who you are talking to and what our experiences are (which shows you up as being a little ignorant in my book); and your comments that 'UK guppies are better. American ones suck terribly' are a sweeping generalisation and are just plain wrong and are offensive to my American friends who dedicate their lives to breeding high quality strains of guppies.

We will not resolve these inbreeding issues here and this thread is not the place. We have spoken about them until we are all blue in the face on other threads and if you want to be argumentative then I suggest you restart that thread.

Fish48 stated that he had '8 different strains of guppies from fish breeders' which reinforces my point; you get your fish from fish stores and have bad experiences which also reinforces my point. IF YOU WANT DECENT GUPPIES, GO TO A LOCAL BREEDER.

 

[locust267]

Oooh ok... A little baffled by the off topic convo

Dan - All 7 guppies came from the same shop and since then I have bought different fish from different store, however all the LFS in my area so far seem to be a bit pants. Unfortunately this whole experience, even though it is likely to have been a bad batch has put me off keeping guppies.

Kribensis - Other people on this forum and in 2 LFS shops have told me my tank has cycled and/or that my water is nothing to worry about for the following reasons:

1) Tank went through a fishless cycle for at least 6 weeks before adding first lot of danio's etc then waiting another 2 weeks and so on
2) My tap water has a nitrate level of 0
3) I have live plants in my tank which would use some/all of the nitate produced
4) I maintain my tank by doing regular water changes

However I have been informed to keep a close eye on my water levels just incase, which I will do but people do not see the nitrate to be an issue.

I must point out that all my other fish - neons and danios etc seem healthy.

Dunchp - I have yet to set up my profile here but will do over the weekend - I live in Bournemouth, UK and will certainly look into finding fish breeders for the next time although with my mollies giving birth am going to have to find home for them and then am aiming to buy a 200-300L tank within the next year to transfer fish from both my tanks into and maybe even a few more!

Cheers

 

[dunchp]

Hi Vicki,

If you live in Bournemouth, then you live very close to a couple of people on this forum and you have plenty of good stocks at your fingertips. There are quite a few excellent breeders in the Southampton / Bournemouth area (eh guys!!).

 

[kribensis12]

For pity's sake, will someone please change the record!!! Kribensis, your comments 'I suggest you do a little research on genetics' are patronising and a little offensive, especially considering you have no idea who you are talking to and what our experiences are (which shows you up as being a little ignorant in my book); and your comments that 'UK guppies are better. American ones suck terribly' are a sweeping generalisation and are just plain wrong and are offensive to my American friends who dedicate their lives to breeding high quality strains of guppies.

Dude, i know plenty about genetics. I won a sciencefair award for a genetics project i did. Second, we went through genetics in biology class, and on our genetics test ( which was like 70 question long) i got a 100 percent. Plus, i do my own research when i come across a problems with line breeding adn things of that sort. I wouldnt consider that a over generlization, becaseu every lfs i have been to have been crap. UK ones are from what i;ve heard, and seen pics of are of much higher quality. Not to say there arent good american breed guppies, but they are very hard to obtain, besidses the fact that i havent heard of any local guppy breeders within a 100 miles from here, except for a few in CHicago ( a good 4 hours from here).

Anyways, i was just worried about it being cycled, becasue it usually isnt a great sign that your tank has zero nitrates, but if you get those from good water changes, then GOOD FOR YOU!