Green Water

[ICEEGRL]

I have a 15g bowfront with built in filtration. It has a 13 inch 24w 50/50 compact fluorescent light.
I do water changes everyother day! The water stays green. I started changing the water every day and the water stays green.
I added a bubble bar, and the water got a little better at the very top but is still green!
I tried doing 85% water change. I could then see the fish again, but it only took about 8 hours for it to go completely green again.
It is not in the sun.
Is it my light bulb?
I want to plant it, but I don't think I can get enough light to the plants for them to grow. If I can't get them started then they can't take the nutrients from the algae. I did add some watersprite floating on top. That is the only place to get light.
So what do I do?
How do I get rid of green water and get plants started growing?
Thanks

 

[Underwurlde]

Normally associated with newer tanks.
See recent thread here & monitor discussion:
http/www.fishforums.net/index.php?showtopic=177657

 

[SNAIL]

ICEEGRL,

1. Do a water change 50%.

2. Clean the filter.

3. Clean your substrate (only the the top layer. Don't disturb the bottom layers as you need to keep the bacteria colony down there alive and healthy)

4. Control your lights. 10 hours is sufficient but reduce it to 8 hours for a week and gradually increase it to 10.

5. Do a 3 day blackout

6. Control the feeding. Feed once a day for one week (2x/day is the norm)

Green water algae is a bacteria known as Cyanobacteria. Cause is a combination of lights (direct sun light or too much lights),too much nutrients in the water from both fish and leftover food and insufficient water current. UV Sterilizers works but expensive. Your water change schedule of every other day is the same as mine. I do a 20% water change every other day.
Adding plants now will help you. The plants will take the nutrients from the water that the Cyanobacteria needs.
Go with fast growing plants like Ludwigia Repens. Your lights are classified as low.
There are other things you need to do to keep plants so do read and check the pinned articles.
To avoid algae, you need lots of plants (50% of the tank needs to be planted).
The more the better. Also, get a cleaning crew. Start with 1 Amano, 1 dwarf cat fish (Otocinclus affinis ), and 1 snail.
Be careful and make sure none of your fish like to eat cleaners.
After a week of planting your tank and your algae issue has gone, remove the activated carbon from your filter.
Activated carbon will also remove nutrients that the plants need. You will then need to add fertilizers for aquatic plants.

 

[ICEEGRL]

The lights are only on for about 8 hours now. No sun shining on it. I have mollies in it... lightly brackish. I have lots of water movement from the spraybar(return) and I had added a bubble bar when the water turned green. I now have about 10 water sprite(small) and 2 lily bulbs. I don't know how much light they are getting through the green water though. I have flourish liquid and tabs for ferts. I have not put in the liquid because I was afraid to add more to feed the algae in the water. Oh and I have play sand on the bottom. There is one shrimp in there too. I only feed once a day any way so that is covered. I don't have carbon in the filter. It just has ceramic and floss. I guess that leaves lots of nutrients? Or did I miss something? Can I do the blackout with plants without killing them? also I have lots of pest snails!!!!!! I can't seem to get rid of. I have started dosing with flubenol 15. I hope it will get rid of them. I put it in all of my tanks on Saturday.

So now what do I need to do next?
Thanks for helping

 

[SNAIL]

ICEGIRL,

Stop ferts completely for now. Do a water change and after the water change start a 3 day blackout.

 

[SNAIL]

ICEGIRL,

Okay, i have reviewed your post. Brackish water?
I have no knowledge of brackish water plants.
What are your plans? Do you want to go freshwater?
The info you have provided is quite vague.
Please provide details on a point by point format to make things easier.
I somewhat understanding your situation as I am experienced in marine tanks and freshwater tanks.
The more info you can provide, the better.

Meanwhile, do the water change, put activated carbon in, do a 3 day blackout and the chances of your plants surviving is questionable. If your plants are freshwater only, remove them and place them in a tank or bucket with freshwater and add some ferts to get them by for now.

 

[Underwurlde]

erm...

We are talking about green water (algae) - is not BGA (cyanobacteria). Sure a method of killing BGA is indeed a blackout, but we are not talking about BGA: The blackout method is only really relevant to BGA. (For the record, a 3 day black out is OK for plants BTW, so no need to go through the rigmarole of removing them!!!). A blackout for green water will I think be a complete waste of time as it will not kill the spores (again, I think).

Water changes, as you have found, are ineffective. (BTW, are you following my suggested dosing regeme for 'Flubenol 15'? if so you shouldn't be doing inter-weekly water changes as this will render the treatment useless and hence you'll be wasting time, money & effort simulataeously attempting to rid your tank of snails). Also, you should not be using carbon in the filter when using any med (as this stuff is) as this will also remove the med from the water).

Good link for algae info:
http/www.theplantedtank.co.uk/algae.htm

Ammonia will cause green water. Other causes are an imbalance of nutrients.

Hence, test for ammonia perhaps...

Large water changes do not seem to always help. There is an imbalance in nutrients so fixing it will sometimes make it go away by itself. A UV steriliser/clarifier or diatom filter will clear it up very quickly and is sometimes the only way to clear it.

Andy

PS

also I have lots of pest snails!!!!!! I can't seem to get rid of. I have started dosing with flubenol 15. I hope it will get rid of them

If you follow my dosing regeme, and don't do unnecessary water changes, I promise you - kiss goodbye to those damn snails.

 

[SNAIL]

My apologies Underwurlde!
You are correct on Green Water Algae.

To ICEGIRL , I'm sure Underwurlde knows his stuff and he'll provide you proper guidance.

 

[SNAIL]

Underwurlde, I don't know why you are treating for snails. ICEGRL is talking about greenwater here. Maybe it's another issue you are helping her with. Anyhow, isn't it just right to get some things straightened out for now. In this particular tank, there are some vague information on the tank (brackish water). It's not clear as to what she wants to do thus my enquiries. As you said, a blackout will help but not solve the problem. I agree with you 100%. If you follow what I am guiding her to, that is to get some clarrification on her intentions first. Secondly, getting things cleaned, reduce the infection to a managable level through water change, activated carbon (too much nutrients and an inbalance of the tank) and a 3 dayblackout. Third, planting to stabalize the system. Last of course is to do another water change and get the plants going. As you know UV is not a solution to the problem. If she does have a UV, then by all means.
I guess there is some confusion on all of us. Which tank is which? Is the same tank infected with snails? I will sit back and not get in your way. I have seen your stuff and do admire your work. I have a different approach though
(　natural biological setup　) and I do take your ideas in as well as others. High tech tanks are great but a lot of work.
I do cultivate algae for my cleaning crew and gives the tank a natural look too.
All the best!

 

[SNAIL]

ICEGRL,

Here are two links that mention the same solution as Underwurlde.

http/www.flubenol.co.uk/extra%20info.htm

http/www.flubenol.co.uk/

Do read it. You'll find it as the all in one solution to both your algae problem and snail problem.

Underwurlde,

Sorry there! Did some checking around and found these. I had no knowledge of this product. Now that I do, I am currently studying the chemical. My wife is a pharmacist and a friend of ours is a chemist. Hope everything they say is true. Thanks for pointing out this product.

 

[ICEEGRL]

Ok... I will try to be much clearer.
It is 15g bow front tank with built in filtration.(in the hood) The lighting is a 24w power compact 50/50. It has a bubble bar along the back for times I need extra flow. It has gravel in the back and play sand in the front.
It is and for now will stay brackish(marine salt) The level is 1.005.
My water stats are all good. No amonia, nitrites, and very little nitrates.
I have water sprite and lily bulbs planted in it at the moment with flourish tabs in the gravel. I also have water sprite floating on top.
I have pest snails every where! I am treating with flubenol 15. ( to kill the snails) Just started treating 1-27-07.

The tank problem is green water. It has been going on for a while now. I can change the water every day and within hours it will be turning green again. If I turn the lights on it turns green. It even turns green in the dark.
I am not having a problem with it on stuff--- just in the water.

I normally change the water once a week. For this tank I have to do it more often.(when the fish can't be seen at all)
I did wait 3 days after dosing the flubenol 15 before doing water change, but my fish were having fits. It is like they can't breathe. I did check the water. It reads fine. I use strips and api liquid tests(both to be sure)

I do have liquid ferts too, but am not using them on this tank. I didn't want to make the problem worse.

I don't have carbon in it. I run ceramic rings filter floss and polishing pads. I only use carbon to remove med and clean up every now and then.(not often)

Have I missed anything? Oh yea... no sun hitting the tank either. So what may be the problem and cure?

This is the tank in question. I changed the water a few hours ago getting ready to dose again. As you can see it is already turning green again.
Thanks for any and all help

 

[ICEEGRL]

Flourish excel kills other algae will it help with this? I have some. If so will it be ok with the flubenol 15?
The tank does turn green slower without lights on, but it still does it. When the lights are on it turns within a few hours instead of a couple of days. I got it because I have low light and figured it would work for what I have.
I just thought it was worth asking.
Thanks again

 

[countdown]

check out this thread

http/www.fishforums.net/index.php?showtopic=176675

http/www.fishforums.net/index.php?showtopic=169325


might help

 

[Underwurlde]

Hello again,

Flourish excel kills other algae will it help with this? I have some. If so will it be ok with the flubenol 15?

The two will be fine together. PS I don't think excel in itself kills algae, see later..

The tank does turn green slower without lights on, but it still does it. When the lights are on it turns within a few hours instead of a couple of days. I got it because I have low light and figured it would work for what I have.

Lights should be on for 8-10hrs max a day is all you really need.


OK,
Algae... in general....
MY thoughts...
Algae with respect to plants need more light to grow, plants need more CO2 to grow.

So you bung some plants in a tank. For them to photosynthesise, they need light, so you give them some light and bosh, bloody algae!

WHY?

1) Because the plants are not growing AND there is not enough plants (growing).

SIMPLE BASIC RULE: IF you have loads of fast growing plants they will out compete the algae. Bosh, NO bloody algae.


SO, WHY AREN'T YOUR PLANTS GROWING?
Because they are inhibited - an essential nutrient is missing and they CAN'T grow: You have given them lights now they want to grow BUT they CAN'T, bosh algae!
So, what does a plant need next? Answer CO2 (i.e. carbon - the basic building block of ALL living things on the planet). THIS IS WHY adding Flourish Excel 'Kills Algae' - it does not really, but is an alternative to CO2 injection - it is a source of CO2, hence your plants grow, hence, bosh no algae.

Making sense yet?

NEXT thing your plants need are nutirents:
Priamary Macro-Nutrients: Nitrogen [N], Phosphate [P], Potassium [K] - So called 'NPK'
THEN:
Secondary Macro-Nutrients: Calcium [Ca], Magnesium [Mg], Sulphur
THEN:
Micro-Nutrients or Trace Elements: Boron , Chlorine [Cl], Nickel [Ni], Copper [Cu], Iron [Fe]
Manganese [Mn], Molybdenum [Mo], Zinc [Zn]

Inhibit any of that lot and your plants will eithr stop growing (yep, bosh, algae) or will show signs of deficiencies. So great, where do you get that lot from: You dose it using fertilizers such as:

Tropica Plant Nutrition Plus ‘Contains everything you need’
SeaChem Flourish Excel (For CO2)
Nutrafin Plant Gro NPK - For (you've guessed it) Primary Macro-nutrients: NPK
SecChem Flourish - for all Trace and Secondary Nutirents

NOTE: I see you've stopped dosing ferts into your tank in an attempt to stop (or feed) the algae - it should now be obvious that this is the OPPOSITE thing to do! You need more plants (to out compete the algae) is what I think is the IMBALANCE in your tank and a lack of CO2.

So you have two choices:
1) add more plants, CO2, dose ferts.
2) Dont add more plants (but still dose CO2 & ferts because you have plants), but becasue of the lack of plants, must add a UV sterilizer.

Hope that makes sense & is logical,

GL,

Andy

 

[ICEEGRL]

Thanks. I was planning to plant alot more plants, but didn't want them to die in the green water. It is keeping them from getting much light. I thought I had to deal with this first.
The plan for this tank was to plant about 75% with fast growers then add some accent plants. I bought flourish root tabs, flourish, flourish trace, and flourish excel for ferts. I have gravel in the back and sides and play sand in the front. I was to the point of trying to find a better light for plants and get the plants when the water started turning green.
I can't find a plant light that will fit in this tank. It needs a 13in. 24w power compact streight pin. That is what is in it now. I don't know much about lights so do I have to use the same or can I put other lights in it? What would my options be? I will add a picture later so you can see what it looks like(the light set up) As soon as I can get a light I will get the plants ordered and hope for the best I guess. I lookes at uv sterilizers last night. They are expensive! Is there a cheap one? If so what is it, and where do I get it?
Thanks for all the help! I will add the pic of light in a few...