Green Nitrate Sponge

[ashleybrown2]

Hi guys i assume you should take out the green nitrate sponge while cycling to allow the development of nitrates, but when the tank has completed its cycle, do you just put it back in? Im thinking this could get rid of some of the nitrates and effectively "uncycle" the tank? is it better to maybe replace it altogether with a blue sponge and control nitrate levels yourself with the weekly water change?

Thanks,
Ash

 

[DarkEntity]

Remove the Nitrate sponge and tbh i wouldnt bother putting it back in at all even after the cycle is complete.

 

[ibbledibble]

why would removing the nitrate sponge damage the cycling process? if it removes nitrate, which is the end product of the bacterial process surely it would not make a difference? and if you added it back afterwards i would assume that it would do a similar job to carrying out a partial water change? personally i wouldn't bother buying new green ones, when they want changing but simply replace with the blue sponges. but i doubt it will harm your cycling.

 

[ashleybrown2]

I wasnt suggesting it would damage the process by removing it, like I said, I assume you 'should' remove it while cycling. I meant when cycling, the idea is to produce nitrates...if the sponge removes nitrates then it will slow the cycle down, so removing it would help it along. What I was wondering was whether to replace it afterwards or just replace with a blue, and would putting it back in after the cycle destroy many of the nitrates you jsut spent weeks making?

Thanks for the replies guys, much appreciated

Ash

 

[ibbledibble]

I wasnt suggesting it would damage the process by removing it, like I said, I assume you 'should' remove it while cycling. I meant when cycling, the idea is to produce nitrates...if the sponge removes nitrates then it will slow the cycle down, so removing it would help it along. What I was wondering was whether to replace it afterwards or just replace with a blue, and would putting it back in after the cycle destroy many of the nitrates you jsut spent weeks making?

Thanks for the replies guys, much appreciated

Ash

the idea is not to produce nitrates.

after you finish cycling a tank you would generally want to carry out a large (50-75%) water change to remove the nitrates.

the reason to cycle your tank is to build up a viable community of bacteria to convert the ammonia into nitrite and to convert the nitrite into nitrate. this is not because you want or need the nitrate (although it can be useful as an extra fertilizer for planted tanks)

the reason for cycling your tank is because ammonia and nitrite are toxic to fish

removing the nitrate would not slow the process down, as it is merely a waste product from the process
for example you drink water to hydrate and enable your body to remove toxins, you urinate out the waste products from your body. keeping the urine wouldn't make your body remove more toxins or speed it up at all.(rubbish example i know but its the only thing i can think of at the moment, i'm a bit tired)

 

[ashleybrown2]

Ahhh so the nitrates are produced by the nitrites as waste. Makes a lot of sense now.

Thanks a lot
Ash

 

[raptorrex]

I wasnt suggesting it would damage the process by removing it, like I said, I assume you 'should' remove it while cycling. I meant when cycling, the idea is to produce nitrates...if the sponge removes nitrates then it will slow the cycle down, so removing it would help it along. What I was wondering was whether to replace it afterwards or just replace with a blue, and would putting it back in after the cycle destroy many of the nitrates you jsut spent weeks making?

Thanks for the replies guys, much appreciated

Ash

the idea is not to produce nitrates.

after you finish cycling a tank you would generally want to carry out a large (50-75%) water change to remove the nitrates.

the reason to cycle your tank is to build up a viable community of bacteria to convert the ammonia into nitrite and to convert the nitrite into nitrate. this is not because you want or need the nitrate (although it can be useful as an extra fertilizer for planted tanks)

the reason for cycling your tank is because ammonia and nitrite are toxic to fish

removing the nitrate would not slow the process down, as it is merely a waste product from the process
for example you drink water to hydrate and enable your body to remove toxins, you urinate out the waste products from your body. keeping the urine wouldn't make your body remove more toxins or speed it up at all.(rubbish example i know but its the only thing i can think of at the moment, i'm a bit tired)

sadly the presence on nitrates during a cycle is vital. removing them, lol if these nitrate sponges actually work, would give an incorrect nitrate reading, as the presence of nitrates and the speed at which they are produced, is a vital part of the cycling processes, common sense would indicate that removal of them should be automatic. as to if you put them back, well thats up to you. but as their stated life is six weeks, they would seem to become nothing more than bio media after that. water changes are by far the best way of controlling nitrates, lol at least you know that is working, something that can not be said for the sponges!

 

[ashleybrown2]

Humm. ok this is how i imagined it, little creatures called ammonia run about hurting my little fishes. along come some bigger creatures called nitrites to eat the evil little ammonia creatures. HOWEVER! the nitrites are evil little buggers too and they start hurting my little fishes, but fortunately, some nice slightly bigger creatures called nitrAtes come along, and save the day by eating the nasty little nitrites. Once the nitrAtes get enough friends together, they all decide to attack the fishes so we need to get rid of some of them so they dont get too confident. This lead me to believe i need to keep some nitrAtes, to protect my fishes from the evil nitrites.

However, according to ibble, the little nitrite creatures eat up the ammonia creatures, then poo out the nitrates which we need to get rid of. This leads me to believe that nitrAtes do nothing other than sit there until theres enough to hurt the fish. (oh, and useful for plants as ibble said)

Either i misunderstood ibbles reply, or i misunderstood the cycle process, but im 99% sure that my first example is accurate.

Thanks guys

Ash

 

[raptorrex]

Humm. ok this is how i imagined it, little creatures called ammonia run about hurting my little fishes. along come some bigger creatures called nitrites to eat the evil little ammonia creatures. HOWEVER! the nitrites are evil little buggers too and they start hurting my little fishes, but fortunately, some nice slightly bigger creatures called nitrAtes come along, and save the day by eating the nasty little nitrites. Once the nitrAtes get enough friends together, they all decide to attack the fishes so we need to get rid of some of them so they dont get too confident. This lead me to believe i need to keep some nitrAtes, to protect my fishes from the evil nitrites.

However, according to ibble, the little nitrite creatures eat up the ammonia creatures, then poo out the nitrates which we need to get rid of. This leads me to believe that nitrAtes do nothing other than sit there until theres enough to hurt the fish. (oh, and useful for plants as ibble said)

Either i misunderstood ibbles reply, or i misunderstood the cycle process, but im 99% sure that my first example is accurate.

Thanks guys

Ash

humm, thats not quite how i see it. but there is every chance i have it wrong.
ammonia is converted to nitrites, nitrites are then converted to nitrates. we then do our best to get rid of as much nitrates as we can, via water changes. nitrates being present in the tank, is i believe, desirable, only to confirm that your bio filter is working. though i can see that if any nitrates are ever in the tank, it may be desirable, to have them at a consistent, though low level. but only in the interest of maintaining a stable environment for your fish.

 

[ashleybrown2]

Ah, in that case, as ibble said, nitrAtes are just a byproduct. So in reality, it wouldnt do any harm to have 0 nitrates, other than not being able to measure them to test that the cycle is working as intended?

Cheers,
Ash

 

[raptorrex]

Ah, in that case, as ibble said, nitrAtes are just a byproduct. So in reality, it wouldnt do any harm to have 0 nitrates, other than not being able to measure them to test that the cycle is working as intended?

Cheers,
Ash

well that is how i understand it anyway!

 

[ibbledibble]

I wasnt suggesting it would damage the process by removing it, like I said, I assume you 'should' remove it while cycling. I meant when cycling, the idea is to produce nitrates...if the sponge removes nitrates then it will slow the cycle down, so removing it would help it along. What I was wondering was whether to replace it afterwards or just replace with a blue, and would putting it back in after the cycle destroy many of the nitrates you jsut spent weeks making?

Thanks for the replies guys, much appreciated

Ash

the idea is not to produce nitrates.

after you finish cycling a tank you would generally want to carry out a large (50-75%) water change to remove the nitrates.

the reason to cycle your tank is to build up a viable community of bacteria to convert the ammonia into nitrite and to convert the nitrite into nitrate. this is not because you want or need the nitrate (although it can be useful as an extra fertilizer for planted tanks)

the reason for cycling your tank is because ammonia and nitrite are toxic to fish

removing the nitrate would not slow the process down, as it is merely a waste product from the process
for example you drink water to hydrate and enable your body to remove toxins, you urinate out the waste products from your body. keeping the urine wouldn't make your body remove more toxins or speed it up at all.(rubbish example i know but its the only thing i can think of at the moment, i'm a bit tired)

sadly the presence on nitrates during a cycle is vital. removing them, lol if these nitrate sponges actually work, would give an incorrect nitrate reading, as the presence of nitrates and the speed at which they are produced, is a vital part of the cycling processes, common sense would indicate that removal of them should be automatic. as to if you put them back, well thats up to you. but as their stated life is six weeks, they would seem to become nothing more than bio media after that. water changes are by far the best way of controlling nitrates, lol at least you know that is working, something that can not be said for the sponges!

but surely if you are adding ammonia on a regular basis and your test show that there is no ammonia or nitrite you would know that the process is working. the only reason you would want the nitrates there would be as additional evidence. but the results of the ammonia and nitrite test would tell you when the cycle was complete. i'm not saying the sponges are necessary or that i would consider buying them, merely that i don't think it would cause problems to use it.

edit- sorry missed the replies in between

 

[ibbledibble]

nitrates only cause problems for fish when present in very large quantities, you will almost always have nitrates in an established aquarium as the nitrification process is ongoing. having stable levels isn't really a problem, except for the fact that high levels will likely cause algae growth as the algae in common with other plant growth uses nitrates as a fertilizer.

ammonia, nitrite and nitrate are not creatures, they are chemicals. what you want to develop are the friendly bacteria (2 types) that convert 1 form to another.

below is an explanation of the nitrification process.

ammonia is produced by the fish poo and uneaten food. >> ammonia is then eaten by bacteria 1. >> bacteria 1 poo's out nitrite. >> nitrite is then eaten by bacteria 2. >> bacteria 2 then poo's out nitrate >> nitrate is removed by nitrate sponge OR water changes OR used by algae or other plant life as food -- end of cycle

hope that makes it a bit clearer.

the point of cycling your tank is that the bacteria need time and food in order to build up. to begin with the bacteria 1 feed on the ammonia and start to build up a colony, but until they make the nitrite there is nothing for bacteria 2 to feed on so first a colony of bacteria 1 builds up, then when they are regularly providing a food source for bacteria 2 their colony begins to grow too.

 

[raptorrex]

but surely if you are adding ammonia on a regular basis and your test show that there is no ammonia or nitrite you would know that the process is working. the only reason you would want the nitrates there would be as additional evidence. but the results of the ammonia and nitrite test would tell you when the cycle was complete. i'm not saying the sponges are necessary or that i would consider buying them, merely that i don't think it would cause problems to use it.

edit- sorry missed the replies in between

do you not need to check that the nitrites are being converted to nitrates. it is possible, and can happen in cycling, that the tank will have nitrites, but the process of breaking them down has not started. if you relay totally on a nitrite reading, it is very possible that your tank will not be cycled. only when the nitrites are being converted to nitrates, would the cycle be complete.

 

[ashleybrown2]

ah now its a lot clearer. I wasnt suggesting they were creatures, it was an analogy. I did however think that nitrites and nitrates were the bacteria, hence why i thought you needed to keep the nitrates. What you need, however, is to keep the bacteria that breaks nitrites down into nitrates, nitrates being a byproduct. That then allows me to see that the nitrite eating bacteria are present.

Thanks a lot, I understand now (i hope )

Ash