Green Dust/spot Algae Issues - Need Help

[Aeropars]

OK, i have green dust.spot algae and i cant shift it.

My tank readings today are as follows. I am dosing EI and the readings are the day before water change. No dosing happens today.

Ammonia 0
Nitrite 0
Nitrate between 5 and 10
Iron 0.1 to 0.25
KH 6
Phosphate 5
CO2 is around 30ppm measured by a kh4 solution in drop checker.
PH is 6.5

Any ideas on where to go on this?

 

[Underwurlde]

How much coverage of planting have you got in there?
How long have you been using EI for?
What is your lighting intensity & lighting regeme?
How big (in US Gallons or perferably Litres) is your tank?
Do you think your CO2 is stable?
Do you turn your CO2 off when your lights are off?

Actually calculating for CO2 ppm using formula for the figures you state for pH and KH tells me that your CO2 is closer to 60ppm rather than 30ppm. Are you sure of those readings for pH & dKH?

Andy

 

[Aeropars]

Tanks 180 litres, have around 3.5 wpg and been dising EI for about 4 weeks now.
Photoperiod was 10 hours but changed to have a 2 hour gap in the mornign now.
CO2 is controlled by a JPL controller with the Pro Flora set 3. I totally ignore that co2/kh calculation now as i found a better way with making a kh4 reference solution with RO water removing any error from the water in the tank which might cause incorrect readings.

I spent a great deal of time on researching the measuring of CO" away form the normal method as you can have buffers in the tank without really knowing, including phospahte. Remove these and it should be a lot more accurate.

 

[Underwurlde]

The thing that leaps out at me is 10h ours of high lighting. (But if you follow EI to the letter should not be a problem in itself).
Plants need a lot of CO2 & not much lighting compared to Algae that do not require much CO2 but need a lot of lighting. Consider instead 7 to 8 hours per day? A lighting siesta may work, as far as I am concerned as to it's effect on algae, the jury is out. If you have high lighting and good stable CO2 and at least a 50% plant coverage then good plant growth as a result of EI will outstrip algae. Of course you need (some) fast growing plants in there as well.

The actual CO2 / pH / KH calculation is as accurate as you can get it. However, measuring pH and KH is NOT and leads to errors. But I guess you know that.

I spent a great deal of time on researching the measuring of CO" away form the normal method as you can have buffers in the tank without really knowing, including phospahte. Remove these and it should be a lot more accurate.

Yes indeed.

I am going to make one of those dropper in-tank indicators (just waiting for the bits to arrive). After a LOT of reading, you have to be VERY careful on how to make them - there are a lot of assumptions and gaps in relevent threads that appear in forums and I found that you had the plug the knowledge gaps as you go along (I am not a chemist).

Can I ask, how do you measure your CO2? Did you use one of those droppers? If so, how did you make it?

Andy

 

[Aeropars]

Well, with the siesta then i will havr 8 hours of light so we'll see how that goes. Just ordered some Flouish Excel as well which will hopefully get rid of the small amount of black beard algea that I have (at least i think thats what it is)

I measure the CO2 using the drop checker and have the JBL proflora ph controller as well which I use as an indicator and set it to a maximum PH so it does keep the PH and co2 fairly stable with about 0.5 fluctuations.

I had a jbl permanent co2 test kit including rop checker so simply used the kh ref solution instead of tank water. I followed the measuring method that tom barr suggests with accurage scales. My kh test kit says the solution has a kh of 4.5 so as long as i get it to go green (or light green in my case) i should have 30ppm or more in there. I use the fish as a good indicator as well.

 

[Aeropars]

heres the tank at first planting:

It has filled in massivly since this though. I'll try and take a new picture but the algae covered glass is causing a real problem taking pictures.

 

[Underwurlde]

It's not in direct sunlight at any time of the day? Something daft like that?

Nice BTW

Andy

 

[Aeropars]

No, well away from the window and its actually been set up for nearly 2 years in one state or another. I went a while with few plants and no ferting and no co2 due to cash and never had any problems apart form a little brown algae of some sort.

 

[Underwurlde]

With my limited experience I can only say then (because you appear to be bang on with evertthing else) that you may need to get more faster growing plants in there espcially considering the higher levels of lighting you have....

Andy

 

[JamesC]

Do you have both green spot and green dust algae on the glass. Removal is very different for both kinds. Green spot is small green spots that appear on the glass and slow growing leaves and is hard to shift or scrape off. Green dust is more of a film like algae with hairs and scrapes of the glass very easily.

I agree with Andy regarding fast growing plants with the light levels you currently have. If your test kits are to be believed then IMO your nitrate is a tad low, especially if you are dosing EI.

TBH I don't like pH controllers for controlling CO2. I find it better to put loads of CO2 in during the day and then turn it off at night to give the fish a rest. It is better to have a constant supply of CO2 rather than having it turned on and off during the day. Some people I know of do use a pH controller but as a safety net. They set it lower than required in case too much CO2 gets into the tank, but then adjust the bubble rate to give a constant flow of CO2 to provide the required ppm. Just a thought for you.

James

 

[Dave Spencer]

Aeropars,

Your set up is uncannily like mine in every way, including age and types of algae you are experiencing. The only real difference I can see is that I started out with considerabley more plants in my tank. I do get green dust and spot algae, but not so it obscures the view. My problem, I believe, was not having the CO2 high enough at the beginning.

Get yourself loads of Hygrophilia, Egeria, Vallis, Ludwigia and the like and you should get on top of the problem.

P.S. I also have a handy little work force of Otos and shrimps.

 

[Aeropars]

James,

Thansk for the comments. Been looking at your website and the articles. Great stuff. Such clean growth and no problems! I cant comment for that of the green spot as i havent removed anything form the plants only the glass but then nothing was hard to remove from the glass. A simple scrape using the magnetic cleaner and its all ok again for about a day or two.

I really only use the controler as a safety net as i use the kh4 solution to test using a dropper in the tank to ensure levels. MY solenoid is so sensative that i cant easily change the flow rate to a specific amount accuratly. I have lowered the ph now to just the right about so my fish dont gasp and on checking tonigth the dropper is actually more yellow than green so i hope i have more than 30ppm co2 in there.

Simon,

The plants i have in there are pretty fast growing anyway. I have Riccia, bacopa and some fern which is electric at growing but the name escapes me for the moment. I dont think this is the problem really as it was algae free for ages but its only since dosing EI so i think i need to adjust that to the needs of the plants and not algae. I've shortened the photoperiod to 8 hours form 10 to help but i think more will be needed.

Before the introduction of a lot of plants, i didnt actually dose anything and really neglected the whole thing apart form the fish yet nothing greaw algae wise. Looking on Aquatic Plant Central, my tank should be free form the initial start of blossoming algae so i dont want to go down that route with the common fast growers as it will only reappear once i change the setup of plants. Substrate (onyx sand) lighting and suchlike were all the same without my ferting although nothing really grew in there.

Hope all that makes sense and you understand where I'm coming from.

Any other ideas on this would be appreciated.

Lee

Just to add, I keep the CO2 going overnight because it drops significantly overnight so its at the end of the day it hits peak concentrations. Now its there as soon as the lights come on.

 

[JamesC]

It doesn't seem as though you have green spot algae as it requires quite a bit of scraping to remove. I'd say you have green dust algae which comes off quite easily and can grow a bit spotty at times. Leave it well alone for 3 weeks and then scrape off and do a large water change. I had this problem a while ago and the 'letting it grow for 3 weeks' method does work really well. You just have to put up with the eyesore until then. It sometimes requires a second treatment to remove totally.

I still really recommend turning off your CO2 at night and turning it on an hour or two before lights on. Will also save on your CO2. When your levels are high this will add a safeguard and also give the fish a break from the high levels. Contrary to popular belief pH changes will not harm your fish. The most you are likely to get is a 1 point change which won't worry the fish at all. There are even higher daily pH swings in the wild and the fish cope fine there.

When pushing the limits of CO2 watch the fish carefully. I noticed that not all fish react the same by going to the top and gasping for air. My harlequin's for instance appear to be 'drunk' when levels are very high.

Thanks for your comments about my website.
James

 

[Aeropars]

Yes james, I agree about the co2 effects. MY SAE's actually sit on the bottom doing nothing and appear to lose their colour on the black stripe somewhat so with this as well as the gaspin i kinda got the hint from them.

What do you do about the algae on the plants? The glass is easy enough but all the plants too?

I also have some brown growht on some of the plants, only very slightly but i cant see that its Brown Beard argae looking at it as its not furry as i can see. I'll get a pic on that though.

 

[Aeropars]

Heres a couple of tests just after a 50% water change.

Phosphate - 5
Nitrate - Just under 5

With this in mind, i presume i shouldnt dose phosphate just yet but dose in more nitrate?? Wait until during the week for phosphate?