Greatly Gravid Guppy Girl

[AdoraBelle Dearheart]

No problem or advice needed, just wanted to share these pics I took of Khalessi today, poor girl. Hoping she drops her fry tonight, because I've never seen one of my girls looking quite so rectangular before, and that can't be comfortable!

I know we say to look for the squared off, boxy look, that it means they're due to drop soon, but she's more rectangle than fish
Excuse the white floaty bits in the water, I'd just fed them some mysis shrimp.

@corylover5 , I didn't get a photo, but when I looked at her from the back, she really reminded me of your platy that was looking the same way. How is your platy doing? Because I don't think there's anything wrong with my girl here, she's just ready to drop fry and doesn't seem ill at all either, but think your platy would have dropped by now if she were just gravid?

 

[HoldenOn]

Hehehe chonk.

 

[AdoraBelle Dearheart]

Hehehe chonk.

How rude! She's just curvy, not fat!!

And more rectangular than curvy really...

 

[HoldenOn]

How rude! She's just curvy, not fat!!

And more rectangular than curvy really...

Squonk, perhaps?

 

[AdoraBelle Dearheart]

Squonk, perhaps?

What's a Squonk? A skinny chonk?

 

[HoldenOn]

What's a Squonk? A skinny chonk?

I was thinking a square chonk, but that could work too.

 

[AdoraBelle Dearheart]

Well, maybe there actually was something wrong - she was dead when I checked the tank this morning
Nothing obviously wrong, she was acting normally yesterday and prior to yesterday, just looked very gravid. Water parameters 0/0/5, temp 76, under stocked well planted 15 gallon tank, varied diet. Yesterday they had micro bug bites and frozen mysis shrimp.

Have done large water changes 2-3 times this week since I've been planting and things. She was wormed in July/August, and wasn't one of the guppies obviously suffering from a worm burden, although that doesn't mean she wasn't carrying them of course. Only things added to tank were invitro and UK grown, rinsed plants, and a 'new' almond leaf, from a pack of almond leaves I've been using for months. Other fish also seem fine, no symptoms of anything wrong.

Can only conclude that something went wrong internally, perhaps she wasn't able to birth the fry for some reason. I'm sure that she was gravid, she's been getting bigger over the last month at the normal rate, darkened gravid spot, and yesterday when I took these photos I could see the eyes of the fry, even though I couldn't capture that in the photos.

Bummer. She was a little over a year old. I know guppies aren't long lived, but I wouldn't class that as elderly either. She hadn't had fry before though either, despite living with a male, so perhaps there was something wrong internally.

@emeraldking , any ideas or thoughts please? Or @Colin_T @Ch4rlie ?

 

[emeraldking]

Sometimes a female can't drop the fry when something internal is blocking. Could also be an internal infection. That does happen from time to time. There's nothing to be seen, not even in behavior. I had it overhere a couple of times.
It may take too much energy from the female that she gets exhausted and finally dies.

 

[AdoraBelle Dearheart]

Sometimes a female can't drop the fry when something internal is blocking. Could also be an internal infection. That does happen from time to time. There's nothing to be seen, not even in behavior. I had it overhere a couple of times.
It may take too much energy from the female that she gets exhausted and finally dies.

Thank you. You can see from the photos, she looked healthy yesterday No fin clamping, pineconing, fungus or wounds, no odd behaviour, and I expected her to drop the fry last night since she was so squared off, looks like she just couldn't and it killed her
Has happened to me once before, and another time a female did drop the fry, but appeared to damage herself internally in the process, and looked like hell the next day - swimming oddly, some blood internally, and a visible dent near her gravid spot. She survived with salt water treatment, and lived for another six months or so, just swam a little differently - which surprised me, but that was her last batch of fry, and it clearly damaged her internally in some way. That one was either the mother or aunt of this female who died today too.

So it was likely just one of those unfortunate things that happens with breeding any animal? Not something I could have prevented somehow?

 

[Ch4rlie]

Oh, what a shame

Was not expecting to read that she died quite like that.

Though have to mention I have heard of this happening before with gravid guppies and no obvious issues and then next day, oh!

There is no one answer for this, normally it’s down to stress especially if females are in a unsuitable tiny breeder box that hangs inside or outside the tank.
(There ARE half decent breeder boxes but sometime you get stupid tiny ones that are badly designed and are simply )

Could be an infection inside the guppy that could exacerbate their stress levels and the two combined can lead to death, especially in gravid guppies.

Guppies are actually fairly sensitive to their environment so simply moving the guppy from main tank to birthing tank can cause elevated stress.

And lastly far as I know, sometimes, death before birth is unavoidable. For example, in community tanks, there may be in-breeding. In-breeding can lead to genetic problems which can lead to your guppy dying before giving birth. Certain species of guppies experience this more than others inho

Sorry to hear of your loss though, hopefully you’ll soon come across another gravid guppy who will give birth to a bunch of healthy fry.

 

[AdoraBelle Dearheart]

Oh, what a shame

Was not expecting to read that she died quite like that.

Though have to mention I have heard of this happening before with gravid guppies and no obvious issues and then next day, oh!

There is no one answer for this, normally it’s down to stress especially if females are in a unsuitable tiny breeder box that hangs inside or outside the tank.
(There ARE half decent breeder boxes but sometime you get stupid tiny ones that are badly designed and are simply )

Could be an infection inside the guppy that could exacerbate their stress levels and the two combined can lead to death, especially in gravid guppies.

Guppies are actually fairly sensitive to their environment so simply moving the guppy from main tank to birthing tank can cause elevated stress.

And lastly far as I know, sometimes, death before birth is unavoidable. For example, in community tanks, there may be in-breeding. In-breeding can lead to genetic problems which can lead to your guppy dying before giving birth. Certain species of guppies experience this more than others inho

Sorry to hear of your loss though, hopefully you’ll soon come across another gravid guppy who will give birth to a bunch of healthy fry.

Thank you Yeah, I don't use birthing tanks or breeder boxes for that reason, I see no reason to stress the mother out like that. Better to plant a tank well and let her birth there where possible, if the other fish harassed her I'd be more inclined to move the other fish than a labouring mother. But I also stock the tanks carefully so they're not overstocked, and any bully fish get moved on. My adults never (or at least rarely) seem to eat fry even, (well fed and too lazy to hunt them down as a result I think) so haven't seen these harass a labouring mum either, although it's possible they might have.

I did actually think this female might be infertile since she'd never had fry before, so that might have been foreshadowing. She was old to be a first time mother, likely there was something internally that stopped her having fry before. Could well have been from inbred lines, she was a first gen from a group of pet store guppies I bought, so no fancy lines or anything, just fish farm bred mutt guppies, which are notorious now for being poorly bred and genetically weak.

My other adult female is gravid, due in another week or two I think, this girl;

Another pet store guppy, unrelated, and an unrelated male, this will be her second batch. Have two female fry from their last batch, it was a small one.

I have one more juvenile female from the same lines as the one who just passed, haven't decided whether to keep her or not yet. I do want to wind down the guppy breeding, so should send her to the store, but since she's the last female from those original girls I bought (other than a deformed one I'm keeping just because I can't bring myself to cull), tempted to keep her for sentimental reasons. I dunno, no rush to decide I suppose.

Not sure what I would get if I stop with the guppies either. Seriously fish says my tank size is the minimum for a group of dwarf neon rainbows, which would suit my hardwater and are beautiful, but I wouldn't want them to be cramped, and maybe I should wait until I get a larger tank. Oh, plus shrimp. Rainbows would probably eat shrimp wouldn't they.

 

[Ch4rlie]

Ooh, neon rainbow fish, they are lovely l, stunning in big groups in a massive aquarium like my last LFS where I lived before, could’ve stood there watching them for hours! Seriously!

But yes, they grow to about 8cm ish, so definitely has shrimps on the menu given half a chance!

 

[Colin_T]

Was she still fat this morning when you found her dead?

If it was the female's first batch, then there was probably a complication that caused her death. Guppies are quite weak form a genetic standpoint and if the female is going to have problems, it is normally with their first batch. I would say you just got unlucky.

She looked fine and healthy in the pictures and does not appear to have any diseases.