Got An Ok

[onidrase]

I got the okay to swap out my 37 and 10 gallon tanks for a 50 gal (48"x12"x18") and I've been dying to try my hand at African cichlids. I'd like to start slow with some good beginner cichlids, with the basic aragonite sand and I'd like to do the round river rock type stacking on the sides of the tank.

I'd appreciate buying from the comfort of my store, (which is just a small petsmart) so nothing all too fancy, if possible.

right now we're stocking:
Labidochromis caeruleus
Pseudotropheus acei
Aulonocara jacobfreibergi
Cynotilapia afra
Maylandia lombardoi
Melanochromis auratus
Tropheus moorii
Pseudotropheus crabro
Pseudotropheus assorted species tank

My favorite fishes are the ones that are constantly turning the tank upside down with their digging. I'm also not too keen on having a tank with a mishmash of random fishes, I'd rather have 3 species Max, preferably 2, with maybea "wet pet" solo cichlid species and some catfish. I'm also no keen on having a certain make to female ratio, especially considering the fish in store are too young to accurately gender and swapping is a total drag.

The favorites in the store of mine are the yellow labs, aceis, and bumblebees. But I've heard bumblebees are monsters and aceis and labs aren't so much.

If course I know very little about African cichlids so I might be dreaming.

I've heard these guys like a heavy vegetarian diet, so what kind of food would beer best for them?

How much gph should I aim for with the filtration?

What temperature should the tank run at?

Any help is appreciated, thank you.

 

[pumpkinnose]

I'm not a cichlid master at all I've had them but the ones I had were omnivores. I did look all of the ones you said you were leaning toward and all but one is omnivore, that one is your acie cichlid. The Acie Cichlid is a herbivore and grows to 6". The yellow lab grows to 5" and is an omnivore. And the Bumblebee grows to 8 inches and is also an omnivore. I'd also say anywhere from 76-82 for the temp, KH-10-15, and PH 7.8-8.5. I'm not sure if this helps or not but I'm sure someone will help you out.

I found this info. at Live aquaria

 

[onidrase]

I'm not a cichlid master at all I've had them but the ones I had were omnivores. I did look all of the ones you said you were leaning toward and all but one is omnivore, that one is your acie cichlid. The Acie Cichlid is a herbivore and grows to 6". The yellow lab grows to 5" and is an omnivore. And the Bumblebee grows to 8 inches and is also an omnivore. I'd also say anywhere from 76-82 for the temp, KH-10-15, and PH 7.8-8.5. I'm not sure if this helps or not but I'm sure someone will help you out.

I found this info. at Live aquaria

Liveaquaria is simply just another fish store to me, a lot of the info they provide is invalid. They could, and probably are, be right in this case, but I wouldn't bet my money (or my fish) on it, they're not a good website to go to for research.

I know bumblebees do appreciate a bit of meat in their diet, as I've heard in the wiild they eat parasites off of some species of fish, but I know most mbuna cichlids are pretty vegetarian. A lot of the tags at my store say that the african cichlids are omnivores or even carnivores, when most of them will get bloated or constipated trying to digest meaty foods. I appreciate your effort, though.

 

[justin85]

Most people run 2 external filters, I think you want to be looking at turning over your tank volume at least 10x an hour. On my tank iv got 2 eheim filters turning over 2300L an hour and that's for a 200L tank.

 

[Moby-Krib]

Where in Colorado are you? If in the Denver metro check out about-fish sorry his website is lame but it has an address.
Beats any petsmart fish hands down in my opinion.
Lots of both African and SA cichlids in his tanks.
Mark is a great fishman an ACA member and long time African breeder himself.
puts his stock first, profits 2nd. Plus one of the only places I know around here where you can get F1 fish and Know they really are
Admit your new and he will help you out. He is a bit standoffish though at first and can just up and stop talking if he is distracted.

10x filtration is the norm for most rift lake keepers.
78deg is a great temp for cichlids.
Feed something like new life spectrum and you cant go wrong no mater the diet of your Cichlid.
most Colorado water is hard from the tap, not much need to modify it unless your a semi perfectionist like me but realy no need to unless you have super soft water.

bumblebees do have a reputation, that being said every fish is an individual so cant guaranty anything , I have a yellow lab that acts horrible, not the norm for his species, go figure but i love him anyway.
Acei are mostly peaceful but can hold their own, they have been a great addition to all but one of my setups.

Mbuna are the ones that turn the tank upside down in my experience, Aulonocara(Peacocks) not so much but some will. just depends. cant comment on the haps as I've yet to own any.

 

[Malawi MaD]

Just to add really, I think if your going for 2 or 3 species then keeping larger groups of each is great( Best way for mbuna especially) Very natural too. Id definitely keep mbuna over the peacocks/haps, these will get to large for your tank as they really do need a lot of open swimming space and a good tank that has not just length but height and width. Is your set-up 12" front to back or 18"?? The labidochromis caeruleus will work brilliantly with out a doubt, the Crabo(Bumblebee) Id leave out, they do get large and would need a larger tank especially if your thinking of keeping a group. The cyno afra would work well and there is a lot of variants to choose from. The Pseudo acei get relatively large too, They would work in your tank but they could outgrow it pretty quickly. The afra (which ever species you choose) and the labs would look great in large numbers with maybe a pair or 2 of another 1 or 2 species or a synodontis catfish species.

 

[Moby-Krib]

The yellow tails could live in a 50 couldn't they? 6" but active as heck. And early breeders at least for me. I have a 4" female that is ready to spit her first fry, so happy her first hold is almost full term, better than any of my females has ever done.

Truly some of the dwarf species might be a better fit here maybe. Malawi MaD is Pretty spot on most ALL of the time.

 

[Malawi MaD]

Just to add to what Moby said, if you do live near the guy who has a good selection then you maybe able to get hold of other species. Opening your options more.

 

[Malawi MaD]

The yellow tails could live in a 50 couldn't they? 6" but active as heck. And early breeders at least for me. I have a 4" female that is ready to spit her first fry, so happy her first hold is almost full term, better than any of my females has ever done.

Truly some of the dwarf species might be a better fit here maybe. Malawi MaD is Pretty spot on most ALL of the time.

Could do Moby, they to me just seem to always look huge lol (like the biggest 6" fish you have ever seen) Think it's their body+shape. They are quite a chunky, well built fish. 1 or 2 wouldn't hurt in a 50G but they do prefer to be in a shoaling group, love been with their own kind. Its entirely up to onidrase, just think it would be much better for him to go with slightly smaller species. Thanks Moby, still learning with these fish all the time .You seem to know your stuff to (which is good )

 

[Moby-Krib]

The yellow tails could live in a 50 couldn't they? 6" but active as heck. And early breeders at least for me. I have a 4" female that is ready to spit her first fry, so happy her first hold is almost full term, better than any of my females has ever done.

Truly some of the dwarf species might be a better fit here maybe. Malawi MaD is Pretty spot on most ALL of the time.

Could do Moby, they to me just seem to always look huge lol (like the biggest 6" fish you have ever seen) Think it's their body+shape. They are quite a chunky, well built fish. 1 or 2 wouldn't hurt in a 50G but they do prefer to be in a shoaling group, love been with their own kind. Its entirely up to onidrase, just think it would be much better for him to go with slightly smaller species. Thanks Moby, still learning with these fish all the time .You seem to know your stuff to (which is good )

Oh I'm gonna pick up tons, I've been stalking the forum for months while I learn. years of learning to come I'm sure.
Thank you for the complement but you are much ahead of me.
I'm hoping to catch some peekers on camera in the next day or so b4 I either take mom out of the fry tank or strip her, getting way to thin for a 4" fish.

 

[onidrase]

Just to add to what Moby said, if you do live near the guy who has a good selection then you maybe able to get hold of other species. Opening your options more.

I know a few places that stock more africans, but I don't live in denver metro, and I can't drive. The most african oriented store treats their fish god awfully. They're healthier at petsmart

I've also been thinking about ordering fish online, but I'm not really sure what I'm looking for so it'd be a drag. It'll be a while before I can get all this running though, so this should be future onidrase's problem. Until then:

would an aquaclear 110 or two work for filtration (two aquaclears would bring the tank to 1000 US gph of filtration or 3785lph according to the calculator, on a 50 gallon tank but those are HOBs), or would I need something bigger? I've also got a fluval 406, but if neither of these would work for it alone, I'll pick something up. any recommendations?

Seems in general this could be a much bigger project than what I was expecting, now so much the "ADD SAND, ADD ROCKS, PUT IN FISH" that I thought, but I guess things are never that simple

For the most part I'm just looking for a group or two or fish that like to dig, I'm not a fan of the regular mbuna tank where there's like one of every kind of pseudotropheus out there crammed together. It just looks jumbled and disorganized in those tanks.

I also love the moliro moorii cichlids, they're super adorable with the round heads, but I believe they'd need something a bit bigger, and they need to be in groups with only a few males and lots of females. I'm not good at gendering things (especially when they're young) so I'm trying to avoid having to get a certain male to female ratio.

 

[onidrase]

Just to add really, I think if your going for 2 or 3 species then keeping larger groups of each is great( Best way for mbuna especially) Very natural too. Id definitely keep mbuna over the peacocks/haps, these will get to large for your tank as they really do need a lot of open swimming space and a good tank that has not just length but height and width. Is your set-up 12" front to back or 18"?? The labidochromis caeruleus will work brilliantly with out a doubt, the Crabo(Bumblebee) Id leave out, they do get large and would need a larger tank especially if your thinking of keeping a group. The cyno afra would work well and there is a lot of variants to choose from. The Pseudo acei get relatively large too, They would work in your tank but they could outgrow it pretty quickly. The afra (which ever species you choose) and the labs would look great in large numbers with maybe a pair or 2 of another 1 or 2 species or a synodontis catfish species.

It's 48 inches long, 12 inches wide, 18 inches tall. I'd love to pick up another 75 gallon but it isn't gonna happen as long as I live with my dad

I love the yellow labs a lot, they seem to have a lot of personality at the store, and they like to nibble on my fingers same with the aceis, which I thought were more of another small docile type of cichlid (also read they tend to hang closer to the top of the water, which may or may not be true)

in regards to the afras, they make me nervous due to the fact that my co workers are really bad at identifying cichlids, so we've got fish that look like the afras in the mixed pseudotropheus tank and some of the pseudotropheus in the afra tank and peacocks in the oscar tanks (don't even know how that happened) and then there are the kennyis which have a name tag which looks exactly like the afras. I do love the look f the afras, though, I'm just worried I'd pick up a bunch of them thinking they're afras when they're really totally different.

How would johanni's work? too big? too aggressive? any says on what these guys are like? Would they work with the yellow labs?

 

[onidrase]

oh shoot, almost forgot, what kind of padding could I put on the tank bottom to help with the load of rocks? some people suggest egg crate or something weird like that (and I don't think they mean the cardboard either) but I don't know what it is.

 

[Malawi MaD]

Johanni's could work, can be aggressive and the females are the same colour of the labs so they may cross breed. If you don't want to keep the fry then these would work. If you wanted to ( I know someone else on here did the same when i asked) you could take pics of the fish at the store and ill have a go at identifying as many as i can. I dont use anything on the bottom of my tanks but yes the egg crate would work fine?

 

[onidrase]

Johanni's could work, can be aggressive and the females are the same colour of the labs so they may cross breed. If you don't want to keep the fry then these would work. If you wanted to ( I know someone else on here did the same when i asked) you could take pics of the fish at the store and ill have a go at identifying as many as i can. I dont use anything on the bottom of my tanks but yes the egg crate would work fine?

So nothing is required under the sand? Cool. Thought it was necessary.

Chances are any fry will be fed to the few small carnivores in my 75 gallon, or eaten by any catfish I might put in the african tank. I've no interest in breeding.

I can try to get some pictures on sunday, but I don't work until then.

Is there a certain male to female ratio needed for johannis? How old are they when they can be gendered properly?

On the topic of rocks, I know some people just go out and find some and stick them in the tanks after washing them down, but what are some foolproof ways of knowing a rock is safe if I take that route?

Thanks for all the help, by the way

EDIT: come to think of it, if the females are just as yellow as the labs, I'd think a johanni only tank would look great, as long as I can find enough of them, provided they just kind of pop up here and there now and again inside of the mixed species tank

what kinds of stocking numbers would I be looking at, if I do all johannis and some synodontis catfish (looking mostly at petricola) and if I did the lab mix? Any other suggestions?