Gill Flukes Or Ich?

[black angel]

I cant believe how stupid i was.
Bought what i thought was healthy looking fish so added them withour quarantining first.

Big big mistake.

One of my new fish i noticed had ich and then noticed my female angelfish that ive had for two years start to behave weird.
She shakes her head and darts forward then swims backward and has stayed in the corner of the tank with clamped fins..
At first I thought the ich may have got to her gills as theres no spots so I added an ich treatment *protozin* last night.

Its been suggested it could be gill flukes and i dont have any sterazin for that *now on order*.

So tonight is the second dose for protozin but what do I do about the gill flukes as i cant mix the meds. Which is the more deadlier, the ich or the flukes?

 

[kev_kb]

I'd complete the course of protozin and see how it goes, it could just be the early signs of Ich. Also make sure you are dosing correctly if this happened after the addition of protozin.

 

[black angel]

It started before i added the protozin.

Will finish the meds and see how she is after that then, thanks

 

[black angel]

Shes getting worse. Ive got nowhere for her to be put into isolation either.
shes in a corner shimmying and darting. Her right side has a grey sheen to it and her breathing is faster than normal. Maybe its velvet or worse still columnaris.
Ive had to put the temp up to 82f for the ich and really i dont know what to do now.

Ammonia 0
nitrite 0
nitrate same as tap 25
gh 6
ph 6 or less cant test lower than 6.5 and its deffinitely lower.
kh 0

I know the last two point to a ph crash but the water is like that from the tap and the fish have been fine with that for the last 6 months since we came here.

Its something the other fish brought in.

 

[kev_kb]

Sorry I'm probably not gonna be much help here, but heres some points to consider.

1. Shimmying is a sign of Ich, this doesn't mean it isn't something else of course.
2. With the meds and increased temperature the amount of oxygen in the water could be low. Do you have a lot of surface movement? If you have an air pump/stone or something I would add it in.

Have you seen the Waterlife site? There is a good page on there to help identify what is wrong.

Regardless I would finish the course of Protozin.

 

[black angel]

Ive never had ich in my tank so all ive ever known is people coming to the forum with visible spots, so maybe it is ich.
Im such a worrywort with this fish as shes my baby.
Theres plenty of surface movement as well.

Still going to keep with the meds, thanks Kev you are helping.


will go check out the waterlife site.

 

[kev_kb]

How are things today?

 

[black angel]

All the new fish are fine.

The female angel isnt doing the behaviour so much today, but her and my two homebred little ones have a grey coat to them which means theres something irritating them and she is holding her pectoral fin to her side which is a classic pre ich spot symptom.
She also has fin rot which is a secondary infection so tomorrow im going to do a huge water change and give her a salt bath.

My large congo tera died withing 10 minutes of me looking at them and ive lost a danio as well, she went nuts then just turned turtle.

I think to be honest I might lose the three angels.

 

[black angel]

Angelfish Virus

A Potentially deadly disease. It is highly infectious. All exposed angelfish that are not immune will come down with symptoms within 2-3 days of exposure, usually quicker. If you suspect that a quarantined fish has this, you should destroy the fish. The risk is too great to keep such a fish around. There is no medication for this virus. The fish's immune system must be relied upon for the cure. Symptoms: Clamped fins, excess slime, listless with nose pointed up slightly, usually towards the back of the aquarium. It has an approximately 3 week infectious period. This disease is so undesirable, because if an angelfish survives the virus, it will likely become a carrier for up to six months. This can put an angelfish breeding operation out of business very quickly. These symptoms can also be caused by other infectious diseases which may be secondary or tertiary infections, that are unrelated to the virus. The object is to keep the angelfish comfortable while giving the immune system time to kick in. Remove any bright lights from the aquarium and treat with an antibiotic to prevent secondary infections.

taken from
angelplus.com

The angels have the symptoms and the new ones have none. Still going to plough ahead and try and get them through it.

 

[WILDER]

Never even gave that a thought if they were huddled together give away sign.
Look under discus plague.
http/www.fish-disease.net/diseases.htm

 

[black angel]

The two babies are together but the adult is on her own in a corner and comes out to feed.
I just dont know what to do now.
Got the temperature at 82f but i cant go any higher as the other fish might not like it.
Ive got metromeds for gram negative bacteria but dont know if they will help or not.
Going to bed now as im too tired to think.
Doing a huge water change tomorrow so shall see how it goes.
*sigh*

 

[WILDER]

Hows the fish black angel.

 

[black angel]

Wilder, its still November

on to subject.

The three of them spent the night and most of today huddled in behind the fern. I put the light on for 5 minutes to make sure they were all still alive and then gave them some food which they gobbled up.
Then they went right back to hiding so i switched the light off again.
They still have the grey sheen but you can really only see it head on which makes me think of chilodonella i think it is.
They are still clampy but the biggest isnt rocking any more and just kind of swims a bit erratic.
Im doing the water change tomorrow as i had to do the indoor pool today as it showed ammonia.
I put the light back ont he tank and they come out and look around and then hide again, but its the most activity ive seen anyway so hopefully it clears up soon. The next meds is on monday so im hoping it at least looks a lot better by then.

 

[WILDER]

Lol black angel another thread got me in the christmas mood.
Good luck hope they pull through for you.

 

[reg2k2]

Gasping, darting, excess slime incl. gills, new fish dying...can all be attributed to acidosis.

and the fish have been fine with that for the last 6 months

I had fish survive through years where my pH must have been fluctuating (0KH here as well), but since I've addressed the KH, I don't believe pH has dropped below 6.8, maaybe 6.6...but certainly not 6.0/< as before. I realize you say your natural pH is low as well, but I would check to see just where it should be (pH meter or perhaps lfs on same supply could help out). Apparently, API makes a wide-range test kit, starting at 5.0, as does Hagen at 4.5.

Just saying, although you may have other things going on, not sure I would dismiss the low pH.