Gh/kh Questions!

[Byron]

I'm with you on the water changes. That's part of the reason I like EI dosing so much! 
 
Okay so overview:
 
Hard water fish are fine with sodium, so platys are okay to take sodium bicarb.
Bettas would prefer I don't add the sodium bicarb. That is no problem for me to cancel out at all.
 
Axolotls, no one really has much info. on sodium bicarb. with them and mine are fine. They also like hard water (kH >4 GH>6) so it seems like this will be okay.
 
Thanks for all your info byron!
 
Do you know any easy ways to bring up kH safely without sodium? I gotta look into this.

I will dig out the Weitzman article as he was discussing this and advocated against using sodium with soft water fish, and post whatever I find tomorrow.
 
Please understand that when I say the hard water fish can manage with sodium, that does not mean they will be the better for it.  Fish managing is not fish thriving, ever.  That's another lengthy topic.  For the moment, I'll just say that sodium salt in any amount does impact on fish physiology.  We do not call them freshwater fish for nothing.

   You'll never catch me adding salt to my tanks, though I might use it as a treatment for a specific problem if nothing better (= safer) was optional.
 
Byron.

 

[TwoTankAmin]

Not to intrude, but KH 4 and GH 6 is not hard water. It is in the soft range:

General Hardness
0 - 4 dH, 0 - 70 ppm : very soft
4 - 8 dH, 70 - 140 ppm : soft
8 - 12 dH, 140 - 210 ppm : medium hard
12 - 18 dH, 210 - 320 ppm : fairly hard
18 - 30 dH, 320 - 530 ppm : hard
higher : liquid rock (Lake Malawi and Los Angeles, CA)
Mine used to be 5 KH and 6 GH, but after a dozen years it has softened to KH 4 and GH 5. But now I measure TDS and that is 83 ppm out of the tap. Like Byron, I keep mostly soft water fish and many have spawned over the years despite me.

 

[kcoscia]

I researched a bit on alternatives, and the only real option I see is Seachem Alkaline buffer, but they're all secretive about the ingredients. Apparently its "better" than food grade baking soda with other electrolytes, but they won't say what in much depth. Hmmmm Seachem.
 
Yes twotank, good info. That's the minimum suggested for axolotls, but they can thrive in many parameters. It's "hard enough" for them. I confirmed on caudata.org that sodium bicarb. is fine for them, as it is a common ingredient in amphibian ringer's solution along with other commonly used axolotl suggested hardness increasing solutions.
 
So, are we saying that I shouldn't add kH to my platy tank, since salt is not great, although they are hard water fish? And that the focus should be placed on GH, with no additions to kH? As a reminded my tap comes out kH 0, GH 0.
 
No kH for bettas. Is the minimal salt they get from the Seachem Replenish okay? 
 
I hope it's okay that we kinda hijacked this thread and turned it into an in depth discussion. 
 
I came here to learn more about the actual FISH side of aquariums and I sure am! Thanks all.

 

[TwoTankAmin]

Have you tried putting a bag of crushed coral in your filter to bump your GH and KH some?
 
Also, I agree whole heartedly with Byron in what he stated about planted forums and fish being a "side" issue on most of them. I am now down to only 6 planted tanks but for years I ran closer to 10 or 11. I have never been active on any plant sites in all those years for just the reason he explained.
 
I am curious about how your tap has 0 for GH and KH. That is usually only seen when using ro or ro/di water?

 

[kcoscia]

I have no idea! Even the water content report showed very minimal additives.

 

[Byron]

Thanks TTA for getting us back on track here.  I read through this thread and we seem to have hikacked it as the OP hasn't posted since the initial posts.  But this is all related to his/her initial question.
 
If the GH is 6 or less, definitely stay with soft water fish.  Life will be so much easier for the fish and you.  As for raising GH and KH for hard water fish like the platy, I would do this with a calcareous substrate or substrate material in the canister filter can work.  You can buy sands and fine gravels comprised of aragonite and crushed coral and these work; just make sure they are freshwater and not marine, as the latter will have other stuff like salt.  Your pH will skyrocket, but that is fine for livebearers.  The advantage with using a calcareous sand/gravel is that it lasts for years, is stable, and avoids buying more chemical additives which is not only expensive but adding more stuff to the water.
 
As for soft water fish aquaria, I do not mess with KH.  Mine out of the tap is zero, and there it remains.  The GH is around 7 ppm which is next to zero and that stays untouched in all but three tanks in which I raise it (with Equilibrium) solely to provide sufficient hard minerals for the plants.  Some need this, some will have sufficient from the liquid fertilizer.  Another story.  The pH will obviously tend to lower and as this suits soft water fish, I let it.  With regular 50% water changes I find it remains stable and in 25 years I have not had issues from pH or GH.
 
The simpler you make things, the safer.  The more fiddling that is done with water chemistry, the greater the risk.
 
Byron.