Gh Kh Ph Water Quality ?

[AntonyB93]

Hi, anyone who has read my other post will know im getting 5 maybe 6 discus for my 260L. I would like conditions to be as close to perfect for them as possible before introducing them to the tank.

I tested my water today and it is as follows:

Nitrate - 0
Nitrite - 0
Ammonia - 0
PH - 7.2
GH - 8
KH - 6

Now i know my water is safe, ph is a tad high for discus and my water is reasonably soft but that is all i know so if anyone could advise me further it would be appreciated

 

[Byron]

Are these numbers for the source water (presumably tap), or the present aquarium?  The source water is important, because it tells us what to expect in an aquarium; and some things in an aquarium might impact on some of these numbers.  But off the top, there is nothing to be concerned about here, assuming the discus will be commercially raised.
 
We mentioned floating plants in the other thread...are there any live plants in this tank now, rooted in the substrate or elsewhere?
 
Byron.

 

[AntonyB93]

Yes there are live plants planted in there now, unfortunately unidentified as they were given to me a week ago but im sure i could find out what they are (5 varieties). The GH and KH i got from the water source, the other numbers are from my tank today.

 

[Byron]

Yes there are live plants planted in there now, unfortunately unidentified as they were given to me a week ago but im sure i could find out what they are (5 varieties). The GH and KH i got from the water source, the other numbers are from my tank today.

 
I asked about the plants just wondering about the aquascape for the discus and tankmates.  But also, live plants do make a real difference with respect to water quality.  Floaters are the best for this too.
 
I would test the tap water for ammonia, nitrite and nitrate, even though I expect all are zero, but you never know.
 
I see no issues here.  Make sure you obtain the discus from a reliable source; this is crucial, according to the discus experts (much more expert than I am).  They usually suggest not getting small fish, I can't remember the size mentioned...undoubtedly a discus person will come along to help you here.

 

[AntonyB93]

I was advised 2 - 3" discus, are there any ways to lower ph without putting too much colour into the water? I have some presoaked mopani wood in there as i was told this would help but so far hasnt touched the ph. I know about peat but it colours the water for months so ive heard.

 

[Akasha72]

have a look at my thread on using leaf litter. There are some possibly useful  info there about various leaves and things that can help to soften things a little further.
 
Here's a link in case it helps http/www.fishforums.net/index.php?/topic/439536-using-leaf-litter-for-infusoria/

 

[Byron]

I was advised 2 - 3" discus, are there any ways to lower ph without putting too much colour into the water? I have some presoaked mopani wood in there as i was told this would help but so far hasnt touched the ph. I know about peat but it colours the water for months so ive heard.

 
Wood, dry leaves, alder cones and peat are all noted for lowering pH, but the extent they do so depends upon the initial GH/KH.  Your KH at 6 dKH is not high, but may be sufficient to prevent much lowering of the pH.  But using these organic substances will not hurt the fish or plants.  Some of these have more tinting effect than others.  This is all good for the fish, though I appreciate that not everyone likes the tea-coloured water.  Water changes will help to reduce this.
 
Peat does give out, fairly quickly the higher the GH/KH/pH to start with.  Wood tends to lessen after a few weeks, though Mopani does last a bit longer than some other types.  I use oak leaves in a couple tanks, replacing them as they break down; this is an ideal additive for soft water fish, and fry grow faster when leaves are present.  There is a bacterial component, but also the infusoria produced.  Alder cones are said to be stronger--there is a thread mentioning these, here:
http/www.fishforums.net/index.php?/topic/439536-using-leaf-litter-for-infusoria/
and near the end recently Akasha has been discussing cones.
 
The other thing about pH...it is normal in any aquarium for the biological processes to acidify the water, thus lowering the pH.  The GH/KH again governs how fast this may occur.  It is difficult for me to predict, but I would say from your numbers that in a few months the pH will likely be below 7, just from the organic decomposition occurring in the substrate.
 
Byron.

 

[Akasha72]

I just wanted to add to this in case it helps. My natural water supply is soft with a very low kH and gH, I don't get into discussions on gH and kH as I still can not get my head around it. I leave those conversations to people like Byron who is really good at understanding it.
 
My tap pH is just over 7 but my tank runs at around 6.5. I have some very large pieces of bog wood in my tank but in my thread I've been looking at ways to provide infusoria for my cory fry but now I'm looking to find natural ways to stain my water in my main tank as I like the effect. It also has a good effect on my fish. They may be tank bred but they seem to settle well in stained water - it's a bit like a dog. You can tame it all you like but you'll never remove the wolf. My Amazonian fish settle in the water they evolved from. Does that make sense? (tired Akasha tonight, sorry if I'm not making sense

) 
 
You may find Antony that you can soften your water a little more but the pay off may well be lightly stained water - but - the Discus will love it. It's also got properties that are useful. Stress relieving and anti-bacterial being just two of them

 

[AntonyB93]

have a look at my thread on using leaf litter. There are some possibly useful  info there about various leaves and things that can help to soften things a little further.
 
Here's a link in case it helps http/www.fishforums.net/index.php?/topic/439536-using-leaf-litter-for-infusoria/

Interesting stuff the old english oak as you called it, is that the quercus robur? I should really know this im a qualified arborist lol. I think it is only we call it the common oak here. I will be trying this out if there are any trees left after the winds we had the other day.
Thanks again byron this is reassuring, il look into the alder cones. The fact that ph lowers further down the line is definitely a positive then because ammonia is alkaline? Which must mean that the toxicity of ammonia is reduced with a lower ph because it will be slightly neutralised. Need to do some more reading, it appears im working things out by myself again.. Il post some pics of the setup if i ever get my laptop working.

 

[Byron]

The fact that ph lowers further down the line is definitely a positive then because ammonia is alkaline? Which must mean that the toxicity of ammonia is reduced with a lower ph because it will be slightly neutralised.
 

 
As organics (fish excrement, uneaten food, dead plant matter, etc) accumulate in the substrate (primarily), a host of various bacteria break them down.  This produces CO2 which creates carbonic acid in the water, thus lowering the pH as the acid increases.  This process occurs in all aquaria; it is slow at first because of a lack of organics, but as these increase it picks up.  The extent to which the pH lowers is governed by the GH and KH, primarily the latter.  This works as a buffer to maintain a stable pH which will be the pH of the source water.
 
You will just have to monitor this over time to see how much effect the KH has.  Partial water changes also factor into this, and in your case these will tend to minimize the above.
 
Ammonia is another matter.  Ammonia is produced when proteins are broken down for energy; fish produce ammonia through respiration, as does the breakdown of organics mentioned above.  Ammonia dissolved in water rapidly associates to produce ammonium ions (NH4+) and hydroxyl ions (OH-).  The pH affects the balance of these, simply stated.  The higher the pH, the more ammonia, while conversely the lower the pH the less ammonia.  In acidic water, the "ammonia" is primarily ammonium which is relatively harmless.  Our test kits like the API measure both ammonia and ammonium as "ammonia."
 
Byron.

 

[AntonyB93]

This puts things into perspective, i have actually screenshotted this incase i need to refer back to it. I will carry out frequent tests and monitor changes, am i correct in assuming my kh will increase over time?

 

[Byron]

I will carry out frequent tests and monitor changes, am i correct in assuming my kh will increase over time?

 
No, unless you target it, which means, adding something to increase KH.  Generally speaking, the GH and KH remain as they are in the source water, and assuming you make regular (weekly) partial water changes.  The pH may lower as I explained previously, subject to the KH.  It is only if you target the GH or KH that either will change.