Getting Back Into Fishkeeping After A Disastrous First Attempt. Need S

[Maikash]

 
 
Hello everyone.
 
I am new (well sort of) to this hobby. This will be bit of a long post and i hope you'll read through and help me out with million dilemmas i am fighting.
 
First off, this is an excellent and super friendly forum compared to any other i have been trolling for past few months and you all must know that your advice/time/effort is well appreciated. You lot are a godsend

I had registered  here a while ago after a horrible experience with my first ever fish tank that i set up entirely on advise of my LFS staff. 
 
Little background :
 
Few years ago we moved into our first home. My 5 yr old daughter(at that time) got addicted to spending time with our neighbours gold fish kept in a bowl. They were inseparable, she would spend a few minutes with him every week and all she talked about was that fish for the rest of the week and couldn't wait to see him again. Then our neighbours son started bullying her and she would come home crying that's when i decided to get her a fish tank. Took her to our LFS, after watching so many fish on display she forgot all about the gold fish and wanted guppies and tetras. So we bought Juwel rekord 800 (110 Litre) tank as it came with filter,lights, heater etc. I bought everything LFS staff told me (This is where it all went wrong me think) They told me to run the tank for a day with API stress zyme and some sort of quick start liquid which i dont remember. Told me to come buy fish in 2 days time. They sold me guppies, mollies, assorted tetras, tiger barbs and if you would believe a red tail shark and a few clown loaches.Told me to change a little bit of water every other month and everything will be ok. Dont need to do anythign else. Also sold me a big bag full of juwel filter sponges to change weekly/monthly which cost a fortune on their own.
 
So the fish were put in the tank. After a few days a couple of guppies died, then they all started dying one by one, I would go to LFS and ask why this is happening and each time they sold me some sort of medication to put in the tank and ask me to come get new fish to replace them when the tank is cured with medication. I  kept going back and fish kept dying. Not to mention shark was attacking a lot of fish as well. It was horrifying to watch. My daughter took it really hard, so much so that she wouldn't eat whenever we lost a fish and it was happening almost daily. It came to a point when she was scared to death to even go near the fish tank and this was the girl who named all her fish and would speak to them for hours when we first had it. I stopped buying fish and when they all died i emptied it and put the tank away. 
 
I felt really bad for the fish as we all developed a bond with them and not to mention my daughter who after this refused to eat meats/seafood and is now a vegan.
 
So i went online trying to find the reasons why they all died specially when i did and bought everything i was told. Thats when i found this forum and startd reading and it ALL became clear. I just wish i had come here sooner. Thats why i said above that everybody on this forum who is helping the newcomers are a godsend. You are not only advising people how to keep fish safely and enjoy them but you are also helping to keep people away from some horrible/unforgettable experiences that could change somebody's life in a big way specially when you a sensitive child as ours in the family.
 
So i thank you all from the bottom of my heart. Please keep up the good work. God bless you all.
 
 
As i completely blame myself for not researching before jumping into fishkeeping so i'll welcome any harsh comments that may come in reply to this post as i know it was entirely my fault and thats the reason i never went to LFS to confront them that they gave me wrong advice. 
 
That was few years ago. My daughter is now 9 years old and we also have a 2 yr old son now

. I have been reading the forum for last 3 months, few hours everyday then researching like my life depend on it. I have got the aquarium out now. Cleaned it up with white vinegar and a sponge thoroughly, rinsed it with clean water few times, filled it up and emptied it few times. I Plan to empty it once again after the nitrogen cycle is complete. Its now filled up with water. 9th day into fishless cycling. Ammonia added on the 3rd day along with Dr Tim's one and only. Got API freshwater master test kit. Checking for ammonia and nitrite daily. Long way to go yet. Two pieces of redmoor root wood has been sitting in a bucket of water for one week.
 
 
I m going for a low level planted tank.
 
This is what i have :
 
Juwel Rekord 800 110 Litre Tank - Dimesions : 80 x 35 x 45cm external measurements
Replaced the two underhood lights with T5 24watt, length 590mm 
Prime dechlor 250ml (mainly for water changes)
Two pieces of redmoor root wood (soaking in water at the moment)
Caribsea super natural black sand 18kgs
Replaced the filter pump with another Juwel Ecoflow 500 
Python 35ft siphon
API Freshwater master test kit
6 Pieces of grey slate (for aquascaping)
Substrate supports
Plent of poly pads for filter
Two Juwel blue fine sponges ( Going to replace the nitrate and carbon sponges with these once the tank is fully cycled) 
 
Readings as of today are : Ammonia 3ppm, Nitrite 0, ph 7.8 (Could be a little higher as i cannot make sense of high ph and normal ph tests

so i am a little worried about i might get  this wrong)
 
My tap water contains 0 Ammonia
 
 
I am currently researching this fish :
 
Pseudomugil Gertrudae (Spotted Blue-eye)
Boesemani Rainbowfish  (Melanotaenia boesemani)
Panda Platy
Blue Emperor Tetra
Zebra Danio
Golden Pencilfish
Celestial Pearl Danio (Galaxy Rasbora)
Pseudomugil Rainbow
Splashing Tetra
 
 
Currently Researching these plants :
 
Java Moss
Xmas Moss
Various Vallis
Dwarf Hairgrass
Java Fern
Various Anubias
Amazon Swords
 
 
Now few questions if you have made this far lol :
 
I want a few colourful fish with low level plants that won't require co2 kits. I am planning to buy Ei starter kit for plants and some seachem fluorish/excel and tabs may be depending on how my plant research go. Any help would be greatly appreciated.
 
Fish wise, i am reading some conflicting statements and i would really appreciate your input.I would like to have as many different colourful species as possible and fish with a bit of character if that too is possible according to my tank size so they can all life happily. I don't really want to go for fish that require large school but if my tank size doesn't allow the former than i guess i must as the health of the fish is the primary concern. From above mentioned fish how many of each minimum can i keep together along with the others? I can't have ALL of them obviously as i don't have enough room for all of them to co-exist according to what i have been reading but any suggestions and help would be greatly appreciated.
 
Any help with above mentioned plants would also help immensely.
 
Got a few more questions but i'll ask them later.
 
Sincere apologies for such a long post.
 
 
Thanks for reading

 

[BettaBarbara]

Hi! Sorry to hear about your first experience, that was terrible.....I am not a fish expert by any means, but sounds like you are off to a good start this time. There are so many nice people (I'm pretty new here too) that will help you out for sure. Good luck with your new tank set up....

 

[Maikash]

Thanks Barbara
 
Yep, i agree with you there are lots of nice people on this forum which gave me the confidence to give it another go and  if i get stuck i can always ask here

 hopefully this time around with a lot of planning and patience it would be ok. 

 

[Lunar Jetman]

Whilst Rainbowfish (like Boesmans) are lovely fish as part of a community tank, I think they'll be too big for your tank they'll grow up to about 4-5 inches and really need a good four foot tank minimum to swim around in.
 
Have you thought about the Dwarf Rainbowfish? They're smaller and you can therefore have more and have a nice shoal in your tank.
 
To be honest, pretty much all of the fish you have investigated need to be in a shoal of 5-6 minimum to get the best out of them and keep them happy and I'd recommend having a larger shoals of a fewer number of different species. The fish will be happier and end up looking better.
 
Have you considered going back down the guppy route? I've just set up a tank in my daughter's bedroom for her (a Roma 90) and she's currently got a dozen various coloured guppies happily swimming around in there. They're easy to keep and hardy fish plus you can get a multitude of colours.

Oh and welcome back to fish-keeping!

 

[Maikash]

Thanks Jetman. Much appreciated
 
Will go and read up on dwarf rainbow now. cheers for that.
 
Yeh dont mind getting guppies either. Can i keep some others with guppies ? 
 
I have crossed off splashing tetra, zebra danio, bosemani and panda platy off the list.
 
I would really like some different colourful small fish and one (may be pair) of a centre fish. Thinking of getting some shrimps as well but i dont want them to overcrowd the tank.

 

[Lunar Jetman]

Guppies can be mixed with other fish, yes. What about a shoal of Dwarf Rainbows, some guppies and maybe some Corys for the lower levels. You might even be able to squeeze something else in there too, maybe a pair of Dwarf Gouramis?

 

[Maikash]

Guppies can be mixed with other fish, yes. What about a shoal of Dwarf Rainbows, some guppies and maybe some Corys for the lower levels. You might even be able to squeeze something else in there too, maybe a pair of Dwarf Gouramis?

 
I quite like the Dwarf rainbows. Thanks. What type of corys should i look for? I am abit hesitant about keeping dwarf gouramis as i read somewhere that there's a good risk of them getting diseases easily? What about Galaxy rasbora or blue emperor tetra to go with guppies, dwarf rainbows and corys? The best ones out of the list that i like is Galaxy rasbora,pseudomugil rainbow and spotted blue eye

 

[Lunar Jetman]

 

Guppies can be mixed with other fish, yes. What about a shoal of Dwarf Rainbows, some guppies and maybe some Corys for the lower levels. You might even be able to squeeze something else in there too, maybe a pair of Dwarf Gouramis?

 
I quite like the Dwarf rainbows. Thanks. What type of corys should i look for? I am abit hesitant about keeping dwarf gouramis as i read somewhere that there's a good risk of them getting diseases easily? What about Galaxy rasbora or blue emperor tetra to go with guppies, dwarf rainbows and corys? The best ones out of the list that i like is Galaxy rasbora,pseudomugil rainbow and spotted blue eye
 

 
Well I've had Dwarf Gourami's live for a while in the past but I guess after your previous experiences you might be better steering clear for now!
 
I've not had direct experience of the fish you're thinking about but I do know they're all fish that like to shoal so you could get some of them too as long as you get your numbers right.
 
With regards to Corys, I guess it depends on what you can get hold of really. My LFS always has Peppered and Bronze Corys which are cheap and fairly hardy. I've got a few Bronze at the moment. You can spend more on different varieties but it really depends on what you can get hold of.

 

[Maikash]

 

 


Guppies can be mixed with other fish, yes. What about a shoal of Dwarf Rainbows, some guppies and maybe some Corys for the lower levels. You might even be able to squeeze something else in there too, maybe a pair of Dwarf Gouramis?

 
I quite like the Dwarf rainbows. Thanks. What type of corys should i look for? I am abit hesitant about keeping dwarf gouramis as i read somewhere that there's a good risk of them getting diseases easily? What about Galaxy rasbora or blue emperor tetra to go with guppies, dwarf rainbows and corys? The best ones out of the list that i like is Galaxy rasbora,pseudomugil rainbow and spotted blue eye
 

 
Well I've had Dwarf Gourami's live for a while in the past but I guess after your previous experiences you might be better steering clear for now!
 
I've not had direct experience of the fish you're thinking about but I do know they're all fish that like to shoal so you could get some of them too as long as you get your numbers right.
 
With regards to Corys, I guess it depends on what you can get hold of really. My LFS always has Peppered and Bronze Corys which are cheap and fairly hardy. I've got a few Bronze at the moment. You can spend more on different varieties but it really depends on what you can get hold of.
 


 
Righteo,
 
We have got couple of other LFS's around. I'll go check them out this evening and see what they stock.
 
Back to research for the other ones.
 
I'll pop back here later with the plan as regards to how many of what i should/would get and then take it from there.
 
Thank you so much for your help

 

[daizeUK]

I just wanted to say welcome to the forums and so sorry that your first tank didn't work out.  It brought a tear to my eye reading about your daughter and how much she loved the fish.  I hope that she will enjoy the new fish tank which you've put a fantastic amount of research into, hopefully she will like learning and helping you to plan for them too!
 
I agree with Lunar Jetman, a few carefully chosen larger shoals will give you a much happier and more socially active community than a mix of different species.
 
Best of luck to you!

 

[TwoTankAmin]

While its great you are researching the fish etc., I think your focus should be more on getting the tank cycled. I see a few issues with what you have reported.
 
Cycling with Dr. Tim's, assuming the product was OK and you followed the directions, should take about a week (or a few days more) to get a tank fully cycled. The fact that you seem not to have moved at all is a problem. Just to make sure, have you seen these instructions on Dr. Tim's sites?

 
Using DrTim’s Aquatics One & Only Live Bacteria: The best and easiest way to fishless cycle is to combine adding the ammonium chloride with our Live Nitrifying bacteria. When used in combination, these will cycle the tank in less than one week. Again, do not add too much ammonia. We make it easy by providing a bottle of reagent grade ammonium chloride that is at a concentration such that adding 1 drop of solution to 1 gallon of aquarium water will result in an ammonia-nitrogen concentration of 2 mg/L (ppm).
 
The procedure is to add the ammonium chloride solution, shake the bottle of nitrifying bacteria well and add it to the aquarium. Measure ammonia and nitrite the next day and record. Add ½ dose and wait 24 hours and measure again. By day 5 to 7, you should be able to add 1 drop per gallon and the next day, ammonia and nitrite will be 0.

from http/www.drtimsaquatics.com/resources/how-to-start
 
Note, the above directions have one adding 2 ppm of ammonia day 1, another 1 ppm on day 2 and then no more until the tank basically cycled. In about a week you should be able to add 2 ppm of ammonia and have it all turned to nitrate over night (under 24 hours).

 

[Maikash]

I just wanted to say welcome to the forums and so sorry that your first tank didn't work out.  It brought a tear to my eye reading about your daughter and how much she loved the fish.  I hope that she will enjoy the new fish tank which you've put a fantastic amount of research into, hopefully she will like learning and helping you to plan for them too!
 
I agree with Lunar Jetman, a few carefully chosen larger shoals will give you a much happier and more socially active community than a mix of different species.
 
Best of luck to you!

 
Hi Daize,
 
Thanking you for the welcome
 
I have come across a lot of your posts and i did learn a lot from those so thank you once again for sparing your time.
 
It was only coz of Jassi (my daughter) that i got into fishkeeping but now im kinda addicted myself and i can see multiple tank syndrome creeping up on me coz i now  also want a betta tank lol. Provided that im successful with this tank im working on right now.
 
She is a dream child and for the past 4 years i have been feeling guilty that i let her down. This time around i'm hoping with patience, a lot of research and some help from you very knowledgeable and lovely people i can get it right.
 
It has been really hard to get her to even think about having fish in the house again but i have been working on it. She has been visiting various LFS's we have in and around Leeds with me and is slowly coming around. 
 
I'll read up on how many of each fish for a shoal i need and ask again.
 
Thanking you. 

 

[Maikash]

While its great you are researching the fish etc., I think your focus should be more on getting the tank cycled. I see a few issues with what you have reported.
 
Cycling with Dr. Tim's, assuming the product was OK and you followed the directions, should take about a week (or a few days more) to get a tank fully cycled. The fact that you seem not to have moved at all is a problem. Just to make sure, have you seen these instructions on Dr. Tim's sites?

 
Using DrTim’s Aquatics One & Only Live Bacteria: The best and easiest way to fishless cycle is to combine adding the ammonium chloride with our Live Nitrifying bacteria. When used in combination, these will cycle the tank in less than one week. Again, do not add too much ammonia. We make it easy by providing a bottle of reagent grade ammonium chloride that is at a concentration such that adding 1 drop of solution to 1 gallon of aquarium water will result in an ammonia-nitrogen concentration of 2 mg/L (ppm).
 
The procedure is to add the ammonium chloride solution, shake the bottle of nitrifying bacteria well and add it to the aquarium. Measure ammonia and nitrite the next day and record. Add ½ dose and wait 24 hours and measure again. By day 5 to 7, you should be able to add 1 drop per gallon and the next day, ammonia and nitrite will be 0.

from http/www.drtimsaquatics.com/resources/how-to-start
 
Note, the above directions have one adding 2 ppm of ammonia day 1, another 1 ppm on day 2 and then no more until the tank basically cycled. In about a week you should be able to add 2 ppm of ammonia and have it all turned to nitrate over night (under 24 hours).

 
Mate, i can't thank you enough for penning down that cycling thread. It is a HUGE help. And the amount of time and effort you put into each thread you reply to is absolutely remarkable. 
 
No unfortunately i did not read that bit on Dr. Tim's website.
 
However i did google the term "How to use Dr. Tim's one and only" and i came across a blog post where someone reviewed it. The reviewer said he emptied the whole bottle into the tank and started monitoring the water parameters daily and and it took his tank 20 days for the ammonia to come down to 0.
 
Before reading that review i had already added 30ml (if i remember correctly, apologies as i suffer from short term dementia) of Dr Tim's one and only as per instructions on the bottle and i did that the day before reading that one should empty the whole bottle in the tank. so the following day i added whatever was left in the bottle.
 
Little correction from my opening post : I have been running the tank with 3ppm added ammonia for 9 days but i only added Dr Tim's one and only 3 days ago coz i couldnt buy it in UK, it was delivered from US took few days and yes ammonia has been at 3ppm since day 1 even after adding it.
 
What should i do now ? 
 
Shall i add more ammonia? 2ppm and then 1ppm the following day?
 
Or shall i start the cycle from the beginning now? It would take less time to start the cycle again from scratch coz it took more than 3 weeks for Dr. Tim's bacteria to arrive from US.
 
Also have a question about the water temperature. Its now set to 85F, i read that upping the temperature helps the bacteria develop in a cycling tank. What is the ideal temp for cycling?
 
Hope i ain't giving you a headache.
 
Thanks a lot again. Appreciate it.

 

[TwoTankAmin]

No, you already had the initial dose of ammonia in your tank when you added the product. As noted you should have added it all at once.
 
So you have gotten things off plan. You should not need to add any more ammonia until you see 0/0. You should have already seen an ammonia drop by now.
 
I never trust posts like the one you referenced. Most people seem to have a hard time reading and following the simple directions for some reason. Often they add the bacteria to a tank where the ammonia or nitrite is already too high or the pH it too low. They failed to read where it says not to do this.
 
Take out the nitrate sponge, you have 0 use or need for it. For multiple reasons the plants should be in the tank at the start of the cycle.
 
Finally, how did you get the Dr Tim's from the USA to you? Three weeks is a long time for it to be mishandled. If it was allowed to freeze or to get to about 40C or above, that kills the bacteria. There are places to get it in Europe that are closer http/www.nordicreefshop.eu/FreshWater/Dr-Tim-s.html?maxproduct=0

 

[Ninjouzata]

Hiya, I'm so sorry to hear about the first experience, your daughter sounds very kind
Glad to hear she's warming up to the idea of fish again, and hopefully all goes well this time for ya'll. It's great that you're doing the research
Honey gourami are quite small but do not get DG disease, I think. So perhaps that could be your centerpiece?