Generic stocking/livebearer question

[Beastije]

Hi, I am here with a hypothetical (since the tank is not empty yet):
I have a 54l tank (not netto though) and initially, I considered keeping a pair of Cockatoo Dwarf Cichlids in them and possibly breeding them.
However, since I got a brotia herculea snail in this tank and I like it, if it does well here would consider getting more of this snail species to maybe breed them, I would not be able to keep the cichlids.

I was considering something that would live near the surface or in the middle and would be a bit interesting. Since my water is ph 7-7,4, the snail doesnt tolerate more than 25°C and likes a flow, I only have few options:
possibly pair of honey gourami (though the flow would have to go away from the surface and not sure about the snail antenna) or
school of some smaller fish.

I already had all the rasboras and am not interested in them anymore. I also had zebra danios, those were nice but again, already had them, I guess I could try other danios. Tetras dont fit the pH requirement. Pencilfish might be good option but I read they are not that interesting on their own. This tank is too small for any swordtail or limia or barbs. This leaves platyfish, endler fish or other guppy variants. I have zero interest in getting a betta again.

The thing is, I never had livebearers and have no idea what they would do in such a small tank and how fast would they breed and if they have an upper limit to their own numbers or if I would have to get rid of fish at some point. Can anyone way in? Thanks

 

[ClownLurch]

Just keep Male Endlers on their own. If you want to breed then get a second tank for females and put your good looking male in with them for a week.
We did this but MrsLurch put four females in with the Japanese blue style endler instead of the two I advised. 50+ fry and the totals going up ever day.
Best of luck.

 

[Beastije]

Just keep Male Endlers on their own. If you want to breed then get a second tank for females and put your good looking male in with them for a week.
We did this but MrsLurch put four females in with the Japanese blue style endler instead of the two I advised. 50+ fry and the totals going up ever day.
Best of luck.

But keeping male livebearers on their own leads to increased aggression and killing off weaker males according to all my research. Did you not experience that? Thank you

 

[Beastije]

Ooh, seems I forgot to include White Cloud Mountain Minnows in the list

 

[ClownLurch]

Not that we’ve noticed.
Theyre not my endlers they’re Mrs Lurchs. She’s got something like 9 in a 30L tank with lots of cover and hiding places. Theres a bit of chasing every now and then but not targeted at any one individual or by any one individual that shes noticed and the tank is less than 1M from her computer that she works from home on so she sees a LOT of what goes on in there.
Every fish and tank is different though.

 

[ClownLurch]

Ooh, seems I forgot to include White Cloud Mountain Minnows in the list

THATS the fish you want. Cheap, peaceful, beautiful, funny, not overly active, a great little fish. They’re actually holding me back in fishkeeping as I like them so much their lower temp needs are limiting my choice of other fish. Get some long fins if you can.
54L may be a bit small though. How long is it?
What are your water hardness figures?

 

[Beastije]

60cm is the length. I am not sure about the hardness tbh, the test I used seem to not work anymore. According to my tap water provider, the hardness is 1,08 mmol/l. which is like 5-6dh if I am reading this correctly
How about the smaller one, Tanichthys micagemmae ? But the pH would be the upper limit

 

[GaryE]

What's available in every country is different, but you have dozens of options. Your water is fine for a wide range of fish, and 25 is a very high temperature. It seems every decade the recommended temps online go up a degree, but the fish don't change. It's a process that's interesting to watch, but not easy to understand.
Here's my suggestion. Look at what is available locally. Fish from the Czech Republic seems much more varied, at least on importer's lists, then the limited offerings in US stores, for example. You may see a fish you think is common, but that others here would have to special order from the skilled Czech breeders. If someone makes suggestions based on what a US or Canadian pet chain store carries, you are not going to have realistic choices.
Make a list of the fish you truly would like to keep, forgetting your tank. With that, we'd have something practical to discuss, species by species, to see if they would work.

 

[Beastije]

What's available in every country is different, but you have dozens of options. Your water is fine for a wide range of fish, and 25 is a very high temperature. It seems every decade the recommended temps online go up a degree, but the fish don't change. It's a process that's interesting to watch, but not easy to understand.
Here's my suggestion. Look at what is available locally. Fish from the Czech Republic seems much more varied, at least on importer's lists, then the limited offerings in US stores, for example. You may see a fish you think is common, but that others here would have to special order from the skilled Czech breeders. If someone makes suggestions based on what a US or Canadian pet chain store carries, you are not going to have realistic choices.
Make a list of the fish you truly would like to keep, forgetting your tank. With that, we'd have something practical to discuss, species by species, to see if they would work.

Thanks, will ofcourse take this into consideration when the time is right.
The 25° is the upper level of the temperature, I would prefer to keep it at 22 or such. Cant go much lower without cooling.

For fish availability in CZ, the situation is a bit different here. Many people in the hobby, many shops, imports from german breeders, one big store imports from south america even, guaranteed quality and certified sources. There are hardly any species that I recognize that would not be sold here.
I was here at a large breeder shop for african cichlids that delivers across all europe. We have such amazing hobby here

 

[GaryE]

For fish availability in CZ, the situation is a bit different here. Many people in the hobby, many shops, imports from german breeders, one big store imports from south america even, guaranteed quality and certified sources. There are hardly any species that I recognize that would not be sold here.
I was here at a large breeder shop for african cichlids that delivers across all europe. We have such amazing hobby here

I'll confess to jealousy. In the US and Canada, for many hobbyists, there are only chain stores. They purchase centrally, and generally offer a small range of choices, often in very poor condition. In some regions, it's almost a monopoly situation, and that has predictable results.

Why don't you consider some killies, from the Genus Aphyosemion? As long as the tank has a good lid, they are delighted with 20-22c, and very beautiful.

 

[emeraldking]

There are many livebearer species that will fit perfectly in your tank the way it is now. But I'm not aiming on the common livebearers in this case. There are superfetative livebearers. Those won't reproduce that many fry in one time. But also small goodeid species can do the job. They will have small batches of fry.

Some smaller superfetative livebearers can be Heterandria formosa, Neoheterandria elegans, Phallichthys tico, Micropoecilia species, etc. Of course, there are also larger superfetative livebearers that you can choose from.

But if you like swordtails, there are some smaller swordtail species available, like e.g. Xiphophorus pygmaeus, Xiphophorus continens, Xiphophorus multilineatus or Xiphophorus nezahualcoyotl.

If someone makes suggestions based on what a US or Canadian pet chain store carries, you are not going to have realistic choices.

Exactly!

 

[Beastije]

So, back to this topic for me.
Luckily, I still dont have the tank empty, so I could watch the temperature in the tank with no heater, and even though it is barely july (though hot outside), the tank is at 26°C, so my dreams of any sort of minnow, white cloud or vietnamese are gone. Who knows what it will look like in august, and the tank is in a dark corner behind doors, no direct light, the shrimp tank is faring even worse.

I am back to picking fish then, I am thinking maybe CPD as in Celestichthys margaritatus or maybe Emerald dwarf rasbora, as in Danio erythromicron. But I want species only tank with snails, and I read the CPD is skittish, appreciates larger tanks even though it can fair in the 50l I have, but I would be missing out on interesting behavior.
And Emerald dwarf rasboras are a hard no with tannins and I planned to place rocks and some wood and leaves for the snails to sift through, so that is also not great.

I am also against any sort of gourami, as they would nip the antennas. I was reading about Axelrodia riesei (Ruby tetra) or back to the pencilfish or really consider the livebearers, Heterandria formosa, Neoheterandria elegans both are bread here and very popular.

I think I dont have any other options, or am I missing something? Thanks

 

[kiko]

if you want variety why not just get a bunch of fish on the smaller scale?
snails for eg can be a pest so for sure 2 dwarf pea puffers...you'd have snails but also a fish to control their population...
then fish that can go along...me personally I have a 45gal that has black bar endlers,neon tetras, hillstream loaches, oto catfish, dwarf pea puffers, l46 zebra plecos, amano shrimp, red neo shrimp, crystal black shrimp and they all get along..endlers stay up top tetras mid tank..oto, puffers plecos and shrimp at the bottom and the loaches cleaning the glass somewhere
as for fry...I've never seen the puffers breed nor have I tried, the tetras breed about 1 fish every 1 month...the endlers about 1 a month..I also have small ramshorn snails which I let them live in the filter so when they escape the puffers have a go at them...gotta clean the pump once every 3/4 months to clean up dead snails stuck on the pump intake
as for plants...I grow them in my 10gal and when I trim them I plant them in my 45gal as my fish tend to destroy all my plants..only thing that lasts is java moss some plant I have no idea the name and the marimo moss ball which are now illegal to get in north america
as for growth...if you have the dwarf puffers...they'll pick at the endlers slowly so whenever I want to increase their size in my tank I grab a female and put her in a breeding box until she spawns
this way I get an extra 15-20 fry so the puffers stay happy hunting as snails alone are not enough as they clean them up easily
honestly the only ones I wouldn't add for looks are the zebra plecos...they're on the expensive side and you never see them anyways...they're always hiding

 

[Beastije]

I personally like less is better, and I am aiming at the most natural and interesting behavior, which I dont think one can achieve with multiple types of fish in one tank.
Also given this is just a 50 liter ( so a bit more than 10 gal) I dont really have the space to play around with multiple. I would go pygmy corydoras, if I didnt have the snails, or the initial idea of the pair of apistogramma, which I still may do, because most of the small fish I talked about here are just not really interesting behavior-wise, except the minnows perhaps.
Oh the choices, the only downside of fishkeeping for me

 

[GaryE]

if you want variety why not just get a bunch of fish on the smaller scale?
snails for eg can be a pest so for sure 2 dwarf pea puffers...you'd have snails but also a fish to control their population...

If you read the whole thread, the OP wants fish that don't upset a hoped for breeding of his snails. Puffers? Yikes.