For Steve711

[George Farmer]

Hi Steve

I'm glad you're now considering EI, I haven't looked back since using the principles.

To avoid completely hijacking Rodder's thread, I'm only to happy to answer anymore questions -

Tank- 32”L x 20”H x 14”W - 125 Litres, 33 US Gallons

Lighting – 4 x T8 18W (6500K, CRI 98, 1000 Lumen) with Juwel reflectors. 10 hour photoperiod (1200-2200). 2.1 WPG

Water – 50:50 RO/tap. 50% water change weekly. pH 6.5, KH 3.5, GH 7, NO3 20ppm, PO4 2ppm, temp 24C, O2 unknown (enough to witness pearling within 20 minutes of lighting!)

CO2 – Dennerle 500g pressurized. 1 BPS with lighting. Approx. 30ppm

Substrate – Dennerle Deponit pre-mix 200 (10 Kg, 1” depth), black quartz (2.5” depth), 25W Rena-Cor heater cable with DIY thermostat

Ferts – KNO3, KH2PO4, K2SO4, MgSO4, trace

Filtration – Fluval 204, mech/bio media, Eheim spray bar and uplift

Fish load – 20+ Cardinals, 8 Amano shrimp, 1 Platy

Maintenance – Daily ferts, Weekly water change, filter clean every 2 months or so, no substrate vacuum, tubes replaced every 6-12 months.

I can say with confidence that I could grow pretty much any plant in this tank. No nuisance algae.

This tank is now completely stripped down, ready for new substrate (ADA Aqua Soil, no heater cable), hardscape, plants and eventually fish/shrimp starting later this year (post-August).

 

[steve711]

Hi,

Thanks for taking the time and trouble to message me and for convincing me to try this 'new' (to me anyway) method.

I've been reading your journal when I get a chance, some at work and some at home, I'm upto page 12 so far.

How come you're starting your tank again? each time it looks good you strip it down. I can understand your reason when you had the cyanobacter outbreak, but the others....

Unfortunately I can't get on with my tank yet as I have to wait until we move house, hopefully sooner rather than later, I can't wait to get going again, especially since I've been 'given permission' to get a bigger tank for the new house.

Going from 60"x18"x24" to 60"x24"x30".
There will be a full step by step journal on here, everything from re-inforcing the floor (old house, joist and floorboards) to completion and maintenance.

Are you adding this latest strip down/rebuild to your jouranl?

Thanks again for your time.

 

[George Farmer]

No problem at all Steve. I like to advocate EI, where relevant as much as possible, particularly to my UK compatriots. The higher-tech side to this hobby is somewhat underrepresented over here I feel. You only have to read the planted articles in PFK to realise this. Through this forum and my hopeful future article submissions to PFK I hope to provide some positive influence to the hobby.

I’m starting my tank again for two main reasons. One, my wife has enough work to do with me away for four months (two kids, a dog, guinea pig and part-time job) without having to worry about maintaining a tank too. I did plan on getting a reefkeeping friend to do the water changes etc. but decided a complete strip down would be the better option.

Secondly, I simply love to create something new from scratch; this is why I’ve changed the layout so many times. I am never really satisfied with my work and the chance to start again fills me excitement – like a painter with a blank canvas. I have learnt a lot in the past three years since starting the fishkeeping hobby and this new project gives me the ideal opportunity to apply all I have learnt. I will be adding the step-by-step process to my journal.

Some pro-aquascapers literally set a tank up for photographing, grow all the plants for a few months until it looks “perfect”, take a photo (for contest or their own portfolio), then tear it down and start over. I personally like a longer-term layout but I still really enjoy the process of producing and developing an aquascape. If I had the time and cash I would no doubt have several tanks, some of which would be long-term filled with sIow, easy maintenance plants, others with demanding stem plants etc. that require plenty of maintenance and general tinkering.

Your future project sounds very exciting too. Will the tank be 30” high? That’s some lighting – have you decided yet? Will it be open top? Have you considered MH? I look forward to seeing the progress.

Please feel free to ask for any advice regarding EI etc. The pinned thread is a good start and the link to Tom Barr’s site makes very interesting reading if you want a deeper understanding.

 

[steve711]

George,

The total tank height will be 30" but allowing for substrate, bracing and trim around the top edge I'm aiming for a water depth of 24".

I've just logged on to this message thread to ask your advice about lighting a tank of this depth actually, I've been reading your journal some more and have got to page 37 where you mention dreaming of a big tank with MH or T5 lighting.

My new tank will be open topped and I just had a thought about MH lighting, again my 'old school' understanding says they're for Reefkeepers only as there is too much 'blue' light to be used on planted tanks and will just be too bright and promote algae, your opinion on this would be very much appreciated.

I may still go with T5's though as I'm torn between a full plant intense tank and a planted Discus tank, I know Discus won't like the MH lighting.

Sorry you had to rehome your Digweed.

Also, you state you dose CSM+B, what's that?

Cheers for you advice.

 

[George Farmer]

I’m no expert on MH (or T5 for that matter) but personally I like the ripple effect that MH gives due to its spot intensity – it looks so much more natural. There are a good choice of FW MH bulbs now – 4000K, 6500K are commonly available and ADA do a 8000K that is supposed to be great, especially for green rendering.

Here’s a very nice example of a MH lit planted discus tank, with 10000K lamps - http/showcase.aquatic-gardeners.org/2004...=0&vol=3&id=141

2 x 150W MH may work well in your size tank. As I say I’m no expert on MH, I’m just suppositioning.

The Arcadia units are popular over here and they do overtank luminaries for HO T5 and MH. They also do ceiling suspension kits.

I too was sorry about Digweed. It was my mistake buying a single Discus – a foolish impulse buy if I’m honest. We live and learn.

CSM+B is a trace powder mix imported from Greg Watson. You can also get a very similar product now from the UK - Trace mix (I wrote the review).

 

[steve711]

Seeing as I seem to be learning 'new/modern' plant keeping practices and throwing away the 'old' way I'm going to do some research on MH lighting or units with a combination of MH + T5.

Have you ever had any adverse effects of your ferts, Nitrates particularly, on any fish, sensitive ones like Rams or Digweed for example? you've pretty well convinced me to come over to the 'new' way of fertilising but surely fishes still dislike Nitrates?

When are you off for your 4 months away?

 

[George Farmer]

I’m very pleased to hear that you are taking such an interest in the “modern approach” Steve.

It is true that high nitrates can cause health issues in fish. However I would say that NO3 as a result of dosing KNO3 is less harmful than NO3 as a result of the nitrifying process (waste > NH3/4 > NO2 > NO3) i.e. a high growth tank dosed with KNO3 to 25ppm NO3 would be a healthier environment than a lower growth tank with the same NO3 level due to fish waste.

If you have a combination of high plant growth and low bio-load (the ideal planted tank) then the dosing of nitrates will be essential for healthy plant growth. The plants perform a better job of filtering than any mech/bio filter as they not only take up harmful substances but also produce various beneficial substances i.e. antibiotics and algae fighting allelochemicals.

Most FW fish are perfectly fine with NO3 up to 30ppm but if you are keeping more sensitive species then you could always limit your dosing to say a max of 20ppm to be on the safe side.

From experience I would say that none of my fish (Rams and Discus included) have been bothered by my fert regime. I believe that the rampant plant growth more than compensates for any possible negatives to dosing NO3 etc.

I fly out on April 11.

 

[steve711]

Thanks for the info.

I've been doing some research on Metal Halide lighting, there are a few that do 'freshwater' bulbs but as you probably already know they are bl**dy expensive, buying a new tank and cabinet is pushing my luck, I think if I say I want to spend another £600+ on lighting my wife will hit the roof....

I'm going to try T5's, probably start with 6x 60" tubes, most likely 54W that should give me about 2.3 wpg and see how I go.

With a tank of 24" width I will have plenty of room to add more if need be.

I been toying with the idea of running a sump as well so I can increase water volume and so increase stock level capcity.

Do you have any thought on that?

Cheers.

 

[George Farmer]

2.3 WPG is a lot of light in such a large tank. The WPG rule has been discussed a lot recently but basically the larger the volume the less WPG you need to the same effect. The reverse is true for smaller tanks.

I'd start with 4 tubes personally. You'll find it easier to balance with this light and algae will be less risky. Then work up if you feel the need. You'll still be able to grow pretty much anything and T5 is ideal for punching down to your depth.

Have you seen these tubes? At £5.18 each you can't go wrong - http/www.thearc.co.uk/catalogue1.php?cur...+Daylight+6500k

How will you mount them?

A sump is a good idea if you're keeping a large bio-load. Are your DIY/plumbing skills any good? Just ensure there's minimal water/air interface to avoid CO2 loss.

What are your CO2 plans? You'll need a big cylinder for that bad-boy! Unless you fancy changing a 500g every other week.

 

[steve711]

That sounds good, I may not need so may tubes then.
I was going to start with 6 and have them on 3 seperate timers so I can work out the best lighting scenario.

Just had a quick look at the link, will have a proper read later, looks go though and the PDF file with it looks intersting.

I plan to ether have a kind of frame made when I have the cabinet made, like a hood with no top or I'll make something similar myself, I may have them suspended above the tank, something I've got to play around with.

I've had a good look around at sump desgins and think it should be OK to plumb it all in OK, I've made something similar in the past for a different tank, a kind of sump/trickle filter affair.

As far as CO2 goes, I'm going to use the DIY yeast method but mix it in a brewers bucket...

Only joking, I've already got a 2Kg bottle, I'll see how that goes but can lay my hands on a pub bottle if need be.