Flame Gourami Has Parasites: Help!

[sylvia]

I don't think he was 'trying to keep the male cheerful'. If I remember correctly (didn't re-read the thread), it was because he was worried the female might also have the same thing - precisely in case it is contagious. Both fish are quarantined but the female needs to be moved out. Moving her back to the main tank is risky though.

As for treatment, salt dips won't work on internal infections and will stress the fish out. An antibiotic - especialy one that can be added to the food - would be more likely to work.

 

[nmonks]

Sylvia --

I agree about internal infections, but if the ulcers are simply infected wounds that have bacteria that got in there from outside, salt dips can work very well. Yes, they are stressful while done, but immediately afterwards the fish settles down and no long term harm is done. This contrasts with even things as "safe" as copper medications, where the long term damage to gill tissues (for example) is serious. Done properly, salt dips are humane, safe, and very effective on the sorts of things they should be used for.

Antibiotics cannot legally be used in the UK without a vet's prescription, and I assume it is similar elsewhere. The use of antibiotics without knowing exactly what you're treating is not only silly but dangerous, because it leads to bacterial resistance. Obviously, antibiotics have no effect on viruses, either (which are to blame for at least some dwarf gourami sicknesses, it appears).

Cheers, Neale

As for treatment, salt dips won't work on internal infections and will stress the fish out. An antibiotic - especialy one that can be added to the food - would be more likely to work.

 

[sylvia]

I am aware of that already - but these are not external according to the descriptions. Also, antibiotics are sold freely around most of the world and even here in the UK (where I live). They tend to be called 'anti-internal bacteria' meds or something along those lines - but they are antibiotics. And while the risk of encouraging resistence in bacteria exists and antibiotics cannot treat viruses (which are probably to blame for this, in fact), there is really little else that can be done under the circumstances. As long as any antibiotic treatment is completed (ie treatment doesn't stop mid-course) the risk is limmited. I do believe there is some law that prevents you getting certain antibiotics (except by prescription) but I can't remember what the criteria are.

 

[nmonks]

Sylvia --

Just a point of clarification -- antibacterials are not antibiotics. Antibacterials are (normally) inorganic chemicals that kill microbes of various kinds. Dettol (Dettox), Savlon, antiseptics, iodine, sulphur drugs, etc. Antibiotics are organic chemicals that are markedly more complex and specifically kill bacteria, and typically only specific types of bacteria.

The antibacterial medications sold to aquarists are basically antiseptic compounds and about as effective: in other words, they help clean wounds and might knock off a very localised, casual infection, but that's about it. The parallel would be with human medications: antiseptics are fine for cleaning cuts and pimples, but you'd not rely on them to cure TB!

The use of true antibiotics is very restricted in the UK, and the only legal way an aquarist can obtain them is from a vet or doctor. I did this once, to treat a sick Ctenops nobilis, and to be honest it didn't make much difference. That said, Ctenops nobilis is very delicate and perhaps not the best animal to experiment on.

Cheers, Neale

 

[Rhiannon]

If it is parasites, feed them some shelled mushed peas that have been soaked in garlic water (I just put garlic in a bowl of water soak over night). Garlic is supposed to help rid parasites, as well as stimulate the fish to want to eat their greens.

 

[purple_drazi]

[sigh]
Both fish have been in the hospital/quarantine tank since Jan 23.
The female is in there precisely because this is so contagious; I don't want her looking fine and then discovering that she has the whatever it is and spreading it to my main tank.

I'm not putting her in her own tank because I've already got the main tank, a breeding tank for the endlers, a hospital/quarantine tank for the gouramis and another quarantine tank that is in use for another 2 weeks for some rainbows that I bought a week ago. I don't have any more room. She's just going to have to deal.

This certainly isn't a case of "wait to see".
Since it wasn't obvious at the outset what the heck it was (parasite, bacterial infection, ulcer or what) both fish are on an anti-parasitic medicated food (plus blanched veg as suggested), and I'm treating the tank with "Fungus Clear" which (according to the box) "treats a variety of fungus and bacteria-related conditions" and "Parasite Clear".

The treatment seems to be working and he's doing well so far. The big bump broke open & popped off some scales but the wound didn't go deeply at all and the swelling has gone down now. There's no sign of redness/infection, and the site seems to be healing.

I'm leaving both of them in the quarantine tank until I'm sure he's clear. He may been in there for years as he's got so many of the dark pellet-looking things festering in his body. But that's ok, it's a nice, decent sized tank for just the two of them with lots of real plants to play in. They can stay there as long as it takes.

 

[sylvia]

It's good to hear things are going ok.

nmonks, I am aware of that difference. I have used products sold as 'anti-bacteria meds' in the past and, having looked up what they contained, found quite a few had antibiotics in them. If antibiotic use is as restricted as you say in the UK, I don't know where I got those from as I do sometimes order medications online. I am pretty sure I got them from a local store though.

How is Canada about antibiotics?

 

[purple_drazi]

How is Canada about antibiotics?

It's not difficult at all to buy antibiotics for the aquarium here, most of the larger stores carry a range. I'm just checked my stash and I've got NeoPlex (neomycin sulfate), Maracyn (erythromycin) and Maracyn-Two (minocycline) on hand for emergencies. It looks like I've run out of Tetracycline from the time columnaris attacked my bettas (it was so virulent that from first appearance of the "saddle" to death = 24 hrs for some of the fish).

 

[confusion]

The fungus clear and the parasite clear are both excellent meds and have successfully treated many of my fish over the years.

One word of warning - fungus clear will eliminate your biofilter. Learned that the hard way. Parasite clear is fine for the bio filter, but will kill shirmp. learned that the hard way too.

 

[purple_drazi]

One word of warning - fungus clear will eliminate your biofilter. Learned that the hard way. Parasite clear is fine for the bio filter, but will kill shirmp. learned that the hard way too.

Oh, good to know!! Thanks for the head's up.
He seems to be over the current trouble and I've done some water changes to clear the meds out of the tank. I'll put one of my spare filters in there to help repopulate the bacteria.

thanks again.