Fishless Cycling Experiment #1

[rdd1952]

I fully expect this first time to take about 3 weeks. That's about what my start from scratch cycles have taken in the past. I'm really only doing this first one the regular way to establish a mark for this tank and filter so when I test the products like Cycle, Prime, Stress Zyme, etc., I will know how much good, if any, they're doing.

 

[fishatlas1]

I've got one you could add to your list if you haven't already... I've heard some people talk about it, and curious to know whether it significantly slows down the cycle. Some people are cycling new tanks by adding an amount of fishfood to a new aquarium daily as the source of ammonia, and no additional bacteria medium or added ammonia. I imagine it would be slower waiting for the bacteria to grow from scratch as it were, and the ammonia to be released from decomposing food, but I'd really be curious to see the results of that.

Hmmm... I do have a 10g, spare filters, spare heaters, etc... Might have to try it myself. I think (not sure) that the rate was 1 teaspoon of flake fish food a day... Not sure of tank size, but I'd guess from the people that have done it all had above 55g tanks.

 

[rdd1952]

I do plan to try that as I have also heard (and suggest it myself too) people suggest that as an ammonia source. I'm sure it will work but figuring out how much fish flakes to use to get the 5 to 6 ppm of ammonia is the key question. I'll probably run a little experiment in a 5 gallon bucket to see how much to add to begin with by just putting a table spoon full of flakes in and see what the ammonia is in a day or so. I'm sure it is at least 24 hours before they decay enough to produce a significant amount of ammonia which, as you said, could really slow the process as more will have to break down every day. It also seems as though it would leave a terrible mess in the end. And if you have gravel, almost imposible to vacuum out.

 

[rdd1952]

I am finally underway. I added the ammonia at 6:00 PM today.

January 6, 6:00 PM
Temperature: 90.2F (Average of 2 digital thermometers)
Ammonia: 4 ppm (12ml for 20 gallon)

January 7, 6:00 PM (24 hours after initially adding ammonia)
Ammonia 4 ppm (not that I expected any change in one day)

January 8, 8:00 PM
Ammonia 4 ppm
Nitrite 0

January 9, 6:00 PM
Ammonia 4 ppm
Nitrite 0

January 10, 5:00 PM
Ammonia 4 ppm
Noitrite 0

January 11, 6:00 PM
Ammonia 4 ppm
Nitrite 0
I really would have expected some change by now as it has been 5 full days.

January 12, 5:00 PM
Ammonia 4 ppm
Nitrite 0

January 13, 3:00 PM
Ammonia 4 ppm
Nitrite 0
I am beginning to question whether I added dechlorinator at the beginning although I am almost 99% certain I did. Just can't believe there has been no change in 7 full days.

January 14, 4:00 PM
Ammonia 4 ppm
Nitrite 0

January 15, 3:00 PM
Ammonia 4 ppm
Nitrite 0
Still no changes. I plan to wait until Friday (2 full weeks) and if there has been no change by then, I will most likely start over.

January 16, 6:00 PM
Ammonia 4 ppm
Nitrite 0

January 17, 5:00 PM
Ammonia 4 ppm
Nitrite 0

January 18, 9:00 PM
Ammonia 4 ppm
Nitrite 0
Still no change in ammonia or nitrite. I can't believe it has been 12 days now and the tank hasn't picked up a bacteria source yet.

January 19, 4:00 PM
Ammonia 4 ppm
Nitrite 0

January 20, 5:00 PM
Ammonia 4 ppm
Nitrite 0

January 21, 3:00 PM
Ammonia 4 ppm
Nitrite 0
It's now been 15 days and there is still no bacteria present to begin breaking down the ammonia. I'm at a loss as to why nithing has happened.

I will edit and update this post as the days go by.

 

[rdd1952]

I thought I would bring this back to the front page and get some feedback. If you look at the post just above here, you will see that I am now through 15 days and there is absolutely no bacteria present. Ammonia hasn't changed (may have actually gone up as water has evaporated but colors hard to differentiate from 4ppm to 8ppm) and nitrite is still at 0.

So, should I clean it up completely, add gravel this time and start over or just let it keep going? I'm going to have to top the water back off as over 2" have evaporated in the 2 weeks so it is now more like 8 gallon of water rather than 10.

 

[Tolak]

The last tank I cycled without fish started showing nitrite in a few days, was completely cycled in 2 weeks. I took one of the sponges from a cycled 55 & squeezed some of the crud from it into the media of the new filters. This sounds like a long time to cycle a tank, even without adding anything from another tank.

If you are in doubt as to weather you added dechlor or not, why not just drain the tank, & add new water with dechlor & ammonia? Any forming bacteria will be in the filter media.

 

[Bloo]

Hi rdd1952. I've been away for a while and wonder how it's going with your experiment. You had some very odd results there. Have you scrapped and started over again ?

 

[rdd1952]

Hi bloozoo2, I did end up scrapping it. After 16 days with no sign of any bacteria development, I gave up. I really don't know what went wrong as I am 95% certain that I added dechlorinator and even if I didn't, the chlorine should have dissipated in about 24 hours especially with the extra aeration I had. I hope to restart it this weekend.

 

[mikev]

Really weird.

I really don't know what went wrong as I am 95% certain that I added dechlorinator and even if I didn't, the chlorine should have dissipated in about 24 hours especially with the extra aeration I had.

Depends. Remember the discussion about the SOURCE of the bacteria? Maybe it is not airborne.

TBH, I fail to understand why starting without bacteria has any practical usage. I understand that putting some CYCLE into the tank and then going with a fishless cycle is cheating, but is there really any reason not to always do this? ...

 

[Ami]

Really weird.

I really don't know what went wrong as I am 95% certain that I added dechlorinator and even if I didn't, the chlorine should have dissipated in about 24 hours especially with the extra aeration I had.

Depends. Remember the discussion about the SOURCE of the bacteria? Maybe it is not airborne.

TBH, I fail to understand why starting without bacteria has any practical usage. I understand that putting some CYCLE into the tank and then going with a fishless cycle is cheating, but is there really any reason not to always do this? ...

It's an experiment Mikey....

Give it another go RD - pity it didn't work this time but I think we were all waiting (patiently!) for your results to see if there was a good and bad way to fishless cycle.

Mine cycled in under 2 weeks with the addition of ammonia at 20ml (109l tank) for 4 days I think it was and then reducing it to 10ml, then 5ml, then 0ml. Never considered other water parameters though.

 

[Dr. Bogger]

Hmm... the results are scaring me...

I'm doing a fishless cycle myself, and as rdd knows (from his other thread) that I am having a little trouble also getting my ammonia to drop...
And some other guy is having the SAME EXACT problem I am having, as stated in rdd's other thread as well... i'm starting to get impatient waiting for my 30g tank to cycle, as i REALY wanna add fish to it...

I wonder what is going wrong here

 

[Dr. Bogger]

The question I'm most interested in is salt. I did fishless cycle twice (and love it, of course)... both time when the process seemed to be hung with 0 ammonia and high nitrites, adding a few grains of salt "jumpstarted" the 2nd part of the cycle. I have no idea if this was accidental, or the bacteria actually can use trace amounts of salt.

Hmm... now that you mention it, i have something to show you...

The image below, is from the API Master Test Kit for Freshwater.
If you look at the chart, look at where it says the solutions for high nitrites.... you see it? it says "Aquarium Salt".... so if it says thats, it MUST have something to do with it... maybe it kick starts it or something?

Let me know what you think about this.