Fishless Cycle Not Working - 9 Weeks And Nothing!

[Saf1]

I need some input from anyone with experience doing a fishless cycle. I purchased a 36 gallon aquarium on May 18th and set it up the same night. I used the article on fishless cycling from this website to guide ammonia dosing, and I placed filter media from my existing established tank into the new tank's filter to try to jump start the cycle. So here it is 9 or so weeks later and my nitrites and nitrates are zero. I've tested every 2-3 days the entire time. I recently added more filter media and have added ammonia occasionally if the amounts were drifting down...I think only twice.

On a couple of occasions I did seem to have a barely visible amount of nitrites, but the next day they'd be back to zero and the nitrates and ammonia wouldn't have budged.

Does anyone have any thoughts on why this thing isn't cycling? What am I missing? My established tank cycled in 6 weeks with fish in the tank (I hadn't heard of fishless cycling when I established it).

I'm using the janitorial grade ammonia from Ace Hardware.
pH 7.8
ammonia 2-4 (hard to tell the difference on the color card but I'm dosing using the calculator on this website)
nitrite 0
nitrate 0

I also considered that many have said the API test kit is really hard to get a good reading with and that maybe I had some nitrates that I wasn't detecting, but I am able to get a readable level off my established tank so I really do believe the level is 0. That and the ammonia should be dropping if that were the case...

Thoughts anyone?? This is driving me crazy!

 

[cowgirluntamed]

I havent actually done a cycle but been reading a lot about it since I'm going to be doing my own soon. Just a couple of questions come to mind...what kind of water are you using? Is it RO or distilled? I know if read that you have to add stuff to RO to get the cycle to actually run since it is just pure water. Also, what temperature is the tank at? It only works within a certain range of temp as well.

I think all of this was on the cycle part of this site so you probably have read it but just thought I'd ask just in case!

 

[Ch4rlie]

I used the article on fishless cycling from this website to guide ammonia dosing, and I placed filter media from my existing established tank into the new tank's filter to try to jump start the cycle. So here it is 9 or so weeks later and my nitrites and nitrates are zero.

 
This method usually is the best method to cycle a tank quickly.
 
Though this does depend if your medi you excahnged into the new filter actually contained the relevant bacterias.
 
 

 I recently added more filter media and have added ammonia occasionally if the amounts were drifting down...I think only twice.
 

 
Why add more media filter? do you mean more media from your established tank filter?
 
Think we need to have more details if this is possible at all.
 
How much ammonia were you adding for each dose?
 
Do you have live plants in your tank?

 

[Saf1]

So the calculator had me initially dosing at 4mL. I've added smaller doses twice since (maybe 2mL because the ammonia had dropped slowly but never to 0). It's currently testing around 2-4 ppm.

I did add more filter media from my established tank about 3 days ago because it seemed like nothing was happening and I thought it might help. My existing tank has 0 ammonia, 0 nitrite, and nitrates around 5 depending on whether it's due for a water change or not.

I'm using tap water treated with API stress coat/dechlorinator. The temperature in the tank is maintained at 78 degrees.

There are 3 live plants in the tank that are doing fine.

Also maybe helpful to note that the water has had a cloudy appearance for while. I assume this may be a bacterial bloom, albeit not the bacteria I'm looking for. The tank has a large bubble wall and I think well oxygenated, but not sure if these other bacteria may be competing for some resource in there? They're clearly not using up the ammonia, which seems to just linger in the tank...

 

[Gruntle]

I'm stumped for a solution. It sounds like you've done everything as per the cycling instructions, but it's obviously not working.
 
Even with a completely new setup, the bacteria in tap water should have multiplied enough to get the ammonia to drop by now. I can't understand why it's not working for you.
 
I'd suggest leaving everything as it currently is until the ammonia drops to zero. If you could post updates every couple of days as to what your readings are, we may be able to offer advice.
 
The trouble with the API test for nitrate is that the second bottle of reagent is powder-based, and the powder settles out of the solution quite quickly, which gives false readings. I usually shake the living daylights out of the bottle (at least a minute) and bang it around on a table before testing.
 
There's all sorts of scenarios running through my head but they all lead back to the point that in 6 weeks you should have ammonia eating bacteria well and truly established. Even if the filter media from your old tank had barely any bacteria, they multiply every 8 hours or so, so even a tiny colony would be enormous by now and your ammonia should be gone in hours.

 

[Saf1]

So I'm completely stumped as well. Part of why I haven't posted sooner is just that in my mind this SHOULD be working. The components are all there as far as I know and I keep thinking if I just wait one more day I'll get the reading I expect.

I'm aware of that issue with the nitrate kit so I spend several minutes beating the #2 bottle to death before I test. I get positive nitrate readings when I test my established tank so I think it works okay.

 

[Gruntle]

Glad to hear you know about the nitrate issue. I went for months thinking everything was fine in my tank because the nitrates were low (I was following the bottle instructions and giving it a light shake). Couldn't work out how my nitrates weren't rising like I expected until I got here.
 
If it were me I'd drain the tank and start again. Turn your filter and heater off, empty the water, refill and start from scratch. Your bacteria will survive in the filter while you change the water, start again and post your results here so we can see if there's anything we can suggest. I can't think of anything else to add.

 

[StevenF]

 
There are 3 live plants in the tank that are doing fine.

 
Plants feed on nitrogen.  They will consume ammonia, nitrite and nitrate, if there are enough essential elements in the water to allow them to grow.  If your plants are growing they probably the reason you have not seen nitrate. However we still don't know if your tank is cycled.  Now people have simply added fish after getting good plant grwoth and have done OK.  However if you do that start very slow with only a few fish at a time. The plants may initially be limited on nutrients and may not be able to grow fast enough to keep up with the fish.  Also add Seachem Flourish comprehensive fertilizer to the water to insure the plants have everything they need to grow.  Once you get the tank fully stocked you might be able to stop the fertilizer if you want.
 
The other possiblity is that you have very soft water or are using distilled or RO water.  Pure water doesn't have any minerals in it and as a result bacteria will not grow.  I believe adding a plant fertilizer to very soft water will supply the nutrients the bacteria and plants need.  That would allow it to cycle.

 

[Gruntle]

I considered that StevenF, but I still have to ask why isn't the ammonia dropping?

 

[StevenF]

 
I considered that StevenF, but I still have to ask why isn't the ammonia dropping?

A plants ability to consume and process ammonia is dependent on other nutrients in the water.   For example if there is no phosphorous or potassium in the tank the plants will not consume ammonia.  
 

 
added ammonia occasionally if the amounts were drifting down...I think only twice

He has added ammonia.  Ammonia drifting down would be consistant with a tank that is nutrient defficient.  The tank may have stated out with sufficient nutrients for plant growth but the plants by now have probably consumed most if not all that is available. And there are probably not enough left to support the growth of the needed bacteria. If he now added Seachem Flourish comprehensive now the ammonia levels would probably crash in a day or two (assuming sufficient light).
 
It is due to situations like this that I generally recommend not having plants in the aquarium when cycling.  We don't have any way of knowing if the bacteria are pressent or not.  

 

[Saf1]

The plants aren`t overly huge for the size of the aquarium so I didn't think they'd have a ton of impact...but what I can do is move them to my established tank for a little bit while I cycle the new tank just so we're eliminating a variable. The first time I had to add ammonia I attributed it to having to top off the tank (I'm in Colorado where it's very dry and my tanks lose about an inch of water a week to evaporation). I assumed I'd just diluted it. But this last time I hadn't topped the tank off and had to add a half dose to get it back into the 2-4 range. So I think removing the plants temporarily may be reasonable. Thoughts?

 

[Ch4rlie]

Removing the plants will be detrimental actually imho, unless the plants are dying or dead then that would actually increase the ammonia.
 
If plants are still healthy, I'd leave the plants in.
 
Do you use normal tap water with dechlorinater or RO water or perhaps well water?
cowgirluntamed had already asked a similar question, but I could not see nay answer to this....
 
 
Otherwise, might be worth considering starting again, doing a BIG water change to get everything back to a basic point.
 
Then this time make a note of all the dosages of ammonia and test results as well as any changes you made to the tank during the cycle such as added more plants , added decor or root tabs etc, I do this every time I cycle a tank.
 
Having a record of dates and times with relevant notes is so useful to fall back on in case things start to go wrong.

 

[Saf1]

I said it was tap with dechlorinator...no worries. I'll definitely drain and restart, keep better notes. I didn't anticipate problems so wasn't particularly worried about it.

I planted 4 plants. Three are doing well, the fourth looks like it's probably pretty much dead but I hadn't pulled it out yet (may have some small bits still trying to survive in there). I'm still not totally sure the role the plants do or don't play in cycling so I'm a little unsure whether or not to leave them in there. I know I had live plants in my established tank when I cycled it and it seemed to go pretty much by the book...but I cycled that with live fish. So yeah, I don't know why this isn't working but starting over seems reasonable as anything.

 

[cowgirluntamed]

Do you know how hard or soft your tap water is though? StevenF mentioned that in post #8. I think having really soft water can make the cycle not start as well. Can you test the gh and kh of the water or find out on a website from your local water authority? They should have the information on there or even calling and asking about the numbers. And I think you can have a high pH as well but still technically have "soft" water. Not sure how it works but it can happen.

 

[Saf1]

I don't have a GH/KH test kit but I did a search and according to my utility company our water hardness is 24-49 ppm which it rates at "slightly hard". If there is value added I can get a test kit when I pick my cat up from the vet this afternoon, or is the info from the utility company adequate? I've looked it up in the past and alkalinity is 97 mg/l if that's relevant as well.