Fishlees (not)cycling

[Iconoclast]

OK so I got my new tank about a month ago and I set it up gravel, decor, filter, heater, etc. I filled with water treated with Tetra AquaSafe (with BioExtract - whatever that is) and let it run for two days to make sure my setup worked correctly. Now I've read a lot about fishless cycling and decided to go this route so as not to harm any fish. Three weeks ago I began adding pure ammonia (CAS 1336-21-6) over a period of 24 hours until ammonia levels reached ~4-5ppm. Two days later the water became cloudy so I did some research and came to the conclusion this was my bacterial bloom beginning. Now over the period of the next week the ammonia level dropped to ~2ppm so again I added a calculated amount to return ammonia levels to ~4-5ppm. I began to test for nitrites (using API freshwater master test kit) and no nitrites detectable. Now it's at the point where I'm adding ammonia about every four days to keep levels around ~4-5ppm but still no nitrites or nitrates. This has been going on for about three weeks, without presence of nitrites or nitrates and everything I've read about fishless cycling has suggested that I should have experienced some sort of nitrite spike. I guess my question is since I didn't/don't have a source of starter bacteria is it normal to be taking this long? Or should I scrap the fishless cycle and just buy some hardy fish and hope they make it? (I really don't want to harm any fish though!)

My Tank:
23 Gal. Rectangle
HOB 30 Gal. Power Filter w/ BioFoam Filter Media and BioBag Carbon Filter
Heater set to 80°F
Water treated with Tetra Aquasafe
2-5300K CFL lights in Hood
Pea Gravel and Silk Plants

 

[LionessN3cubs]

OK so I got my new tank about a month ago and I set it up gravel, decor, filter, heater, etc. I filled with water treated with Tetra AquaSafe (with BioExtract - whatever that is) and let it run for two days to make sure my setup worked correctly. Now I've read a lot about fishless cycling and decided to go this route so as not to harm any fish. Three weeks ago I began adding pure ammonia (CAS 1336-21-6) over a period of 24 hours until ammonia levels reached ~4-5ppm. Two days later the water became cloudy so I did some research and came to the conclusion this was my bacterial bloom beginning. Now over the period of the next week the ammonia level dropped to ~2ppm so again I added a calculated amount to return ammonia levels to ~4-5ppm. I began to test for nitrites (using API freshwater master test kit) and no nitrites detectable. Now it's at the point where I'm adding ammonia about every four days to keep levels around ~4-5ppm but still no nitrites or nitrates. This has been going on for about three weeks, without presence of nitrites or nitrates and everything I've read about fishless cycling has suggested that I should have experienced some sort of nitrite spike. I guess my question is since I didn't/don't have a source of starter bacteria is it normal to be taking this long? Or should I scrap the fishless cycle and just buy some hardy fish and hope they make it? (I really don't want to harm any fish though!)

My Tank:
23 Gal. Rectangle
HOB 30 Gal. Power Filter w/ BioFoam Filter Media and BioBag Carbon Filter
Heater set to 80°F
Water treated with Tetra Aquasafe
2-5300K CFL lights in Hood
Pea Gravel and Silk Plants

wait for a 2nd opinion but here is what "I" think..and im a newbie too so DONT follow what I say until someone else comes along.

I think you might have grown the wrong bacteria or your cycle stalled. I'd check the PH in your tank to make sure thats okay and do a BIG water change. Start over with freshly dechlorinated water and start fresh with ammonia adding to see what happens....anyone else? Im sure there are questions the others would want to ask, but this just sounds super familiar to what happened when I cycled the first time last year. If you have the right bacteria this wont hurt what you have, and if you have the wrong bacteria, it might help grow the right stuff? I dunno, just a thought but like I said wiat for the other more knowledgeable people...really was just giving your post a bump

 

[fatheadminnow]

Your theory is a good one, and something to consider for sure.

Are you sure you only added up to 4-5 ppm of ammonia?

As an Ammonia level over 8 ppm is when you start to colonize the wrong type of bacteria.

Like stated above, check your pH level and make sure it is not at or below 6.6.

Also, does it say anywhere on your filter that your filter media might remove NitrIte form the water.

If your Ammonia is going down, you should be seeing nitrite.

-FHM

 

[Amunet]

Hmm that is pretty strange.
I would do a large water change, if not a 100% w/ dechlorinated water and then add in the ammonia. Make sure it's only at a 3-4 reading and see what happens.
Where are you located?
You could be close to someone who will give you some mature filter media.. or maybe ask a LFS if they will give/sell you some.

 

[waterdrop]

Hi Iconoclast and welcome to TFF!

My take on your post is that you've possibly started off very correctly and carefully and things are just as I would expect, but that perhaps they're just slower than you're reading led you to expect and perhaps some details need to be checked and fine-tuned.

First, and I may have missed it, I wonder what test kit you are using. I'm suspicious that you may have nitrite(NO2) and nitrate(NO3) but that we're not getting a correct measure of it.

Secondly, I believe your initial A-Bac (ammonia oxidizing bacteria) development has perhaps been on the slow side partly from your low tank temperature. We'd probably want to bring that up to 84F/29C and we'd like to know your pH in the tank.

~~waterdrop~~

 

[Iconoclast]

Hey tanks for the replies. My pH in tank is 7.4-7.6 between the colors on the API test chart. My tap water has a pH of ~8.0 but it comes down when I add my dechlorinator. So if the ammonia levels were too high (the colorss on the API test chart for 4.0ppm and 6.0ppm are pretty close in terms of gradient.) then I might have encouraged growth of the wrong bacteria? If that is the case than will just doing a 90-100% water change with dechlorinated water reset the bacterial growth? Or would I need to clean the BioFoam to eliminate the wrong type of bacteria?

On the box for my Power Filter BioFoam media it doesn't say anything about the media itself removing NH3, NO2 or NO3. It just says it provides for growth of beneficial bacteria. The BioBag carbon filter says it only removes particulate matter and helps in removing odor and discoloration.

On a second note Most of my friends have dogs and cats, not fish for me to get bacteria from. The only two places close by that sell fish are Wal-Mart ( I don't trust Wal-Mart, their fish don't look particularly healthy) and a Big Pet Store franchise chain (Petsmart and Petco) however their is a little family owned pet-type store that only deals with aquariums/fish, but it's almost an hour away (two hours roundtrip) but if need be I will contact them (that is where I planned on buying my fish anyway)

Thanks for the help.

 

[waterdrop]

No, I don't think you should worry about the wrong bacteria. Its unlikely you got that high and for now just try to match the 4ppm api color as closely as possible. You don't need to clean the sponge or get into the filter at all. If the wrong species were there it just slowly gets replaced by the right species once you lower your ammonia concentration to the correct range.

The little independent LFS will be your only chance for mature media it sounds, and that will be totally hit or miss but its definately worth a try. Not so good at that sort of sales pitch myself but seems it might involve starting out with how you've been planning for this to be your shop for fish in the future and you are planning to fishless cycle no matter what and that you're really hoping to buy or obtain some mature filter media to seed your media and speed things up. Keep asking friends if they know other friends who have tanks too, you never know! The donor should never give you more than a third of their biomedia and you should always offer to give them a full box of replacement media of the same type.

Not sure how this thing of the zero NO2 and zero NO3 will turn out, but I'd just keep monitoring all the tests and adding ammonia appropriately at the 24-hour mark on any day when ammonia reached zero ppm during the preceeding 24 hours. It may be that suddenly things will change. I assume you've read the API instrucs a few times...

~~waterdrop~~

 

[Iconoclast]

Thanks Waterdrop. Good to know about the bacteria. I will contact the LFS and see what I can come up with. I will keep plugging along monitoring my levels and adding ammonia when appropriate. I will raise the temp on my tank to around 84°F.

Also, my water that was cloudy from bacterial bloom has gotten clearer-ish. I take it this is a good sign? Still no NO2 yet.

Thanks to everyone for the info and I'll see where I'm at in another week or two.


Cheers.

 

[fatheadminnow]

Thanks Waterdrop. Good to know about the bacteria. I will contact the LFS and see what I can come up with. I will keep plugging along monitoring my levels and adding ammonia when appropriate. I will raise the temp on my tank to around 84°F.

Also, my water that was cloudy from bacterial bloom has gotten clearer-ish. I take it this is a good sign? Still no NO2 yet.

Thanks to everyone for the info and I'll see where I'm at in another week or two.


Cheers.

Yup, this is good.

It means that the Heterotrophic bacteria are starting to die off as they reproduce very rapidly and there is not more food source for them.

It also could mean that you are starting to colonize the friendly Autotrophic bacteria in your filter that.

-FHM