Fish Staying Near Bottom?

[Jonj1611]

As I said I dont know what the measurement scale was so it may have been ppm or it may have been some other scale relative to the kit they used.
 
Nitrite was zero.
 
Won't get any kits today, its 9pm in the UK and nothing is open.
 
I did the water change 3 hours ago, and haven't measured the ammonia since then so what would another water change now do apart from stress the fish further?

 

[Shaddex]

When you filled up the tank with water, did you use any water conditioner to remove Chlorine etc ?
If not, you could have killed off the Bacs in the filters.

You may have to start a "Fish-in-cycle" (Link in my sig) if this is the case.

 

[Jonj1611]

Hi,
 
Yes I used Interpet Aquarium Start Up Kit. And also left the water for a few days and then tested PH and Nitrite. And all was good so in the fish went.
 
I have noticed that the guppies and platty's seem to be mainly at the top of the tank in or near the jet stream from the pump while the rest are swimming around at the bottom, they aren't in the middle or anything, they are swimming normally.

 

[TwoTankAmin]

OK- now we are getting somewhere. There is only one scale for testing in respect to concentration. In tanks we use ppm (parts per million). You can also use mg/L (milligrams per liter). The are interchangeable for tank related stuff.
 
Next, your readings indicate you tank is not cycled. If you have ammonia present for any time, you should soon see nitrite.  My guess is you lost a lot of the cycle and may be close to square one.
 
Let me say one more time NITRATE IS MEANINGLESS here. Stop wasting your time and money testing for it. Until you get the proper kits, the best option is to change water. Any harm that might cause is insignificant in terms of the potential for ammonia or nitrite in the tank. And that is the next thing you should realize: Ammonia --> Nitrite, if you have the first, you get the second.
 
If you get nitrite, that is what makes nitrate. But the nitrate test kits work by converting the nitrate into nitrite and reading that. So if one also has nitrite in a tank, the nitrate test is not accurate. It is also the least accurate of all the kits we use for other reasons as well.
 
Shaddex, long before any level of chlorine or chloramine in one's tap water will harm a single established bacterium, it will hurt/kill the fish. Established bacteria have a protection against low level chlorine and chloramine does not kill it, it only puts it to sleep. It revives when the chloramine breaks down because this creates ammonia and that wakes the bacteria back up with a roar.

 

[Jonj1611]

Hi,
 
Ok so whats the best course of action now then? I have read the cycle thing but it has confused me a bit and to be honest I thought I had done this by the book so you will have to forgive me as I am a bit confused of how I got to the stage that I am after only having fish in the tank for a couple of days and what my next steps should be.

 

[TwoTankAmin]

Basically, one is supposed the get the cycle established before the fish to go in.To complete a cycle with fish takes about 6 months to get fully stocked. You start with a very few, hardy fish you select just for this purpose. You have entirely skipped this part. You have way too many fish in your tank.
 
So what is coming down the pike is a lot of ammonia and nitrite. If you do not deal with this properly you could end up with a tank full of sick and/or dead fish.
 
Your options depend on a number of things. Can you afford to spend any money? If not this limits some of the choices. Easiest here for me is just to quote the same info I recently put in another thread because it applies here too.
 
You have a small window of time to decide what to do. You have several options.
 
The only safe way you can keep that number of fish safely in the tank from here on is to be able to afford and to find either Dr, Tim's One and Only Nitrifying Bacteria or Tetra's Safe Start and use them right away. You need to be safe, so get more than is suggested. Alternatively you can try to locate other fish keepers nearby willing to share cycled media with you, but you need a fair amount and this will require more than one source I fear. This should get bacteria in place fast.
 
The next best option to buy more time is to get some or even all of the fish out of the tank. I know this is not what you want to hear, but it is a solution. The store may take back the most recent purchases, maybe the initial ones as well, especially if all you ask for is store credit. Local fish keepers may also be willing to help by housing your fish while you get the tank cycled.
 
You can also try getting through this using chemicals to neutralize things. But it gets costly, is a lot of work and not a guarantee of success. Lots of Prime by SeaChem or Amquel+ by Kordon can help. But this make test kits close to useless. And Yhis is not foolproof by any means.
 
Finally, there is the leave things as is and do lots of water changes route. This means much more testing, will stress you and your fish and will take a long time and a lot of work. It also does not guarantee no fish will die or be harmed.
 
Jonj- right now you have two concerns. First is causing/helping the bacteria your tank needs to detoxify ammonia and nitrite to multiply or in some other way get into your tank. Your second concern is to prevent the fish from being harmed or killed. Without the bacteria to do the work, you will have to change water every single day or the tank becomes a sewer very fast. These bacteria are slow growing, it is impossible for you to get them to grow rapidly enough to keep up with the ammonia being created in your tank now. You will need to pick a method from the options above and use it to protect your fish while your tank cycles.

 

[Jonj1611]

Yes your right, It seems I have done a lot of things wrong even though I followed various instructions for setting up a new tank. To be fair I dont actually have that many fish, I never gave a number of fish as far as I am aware, I may have different types but I don't have many fish at all.
 
I have looked into Tetra Safestart, I thought I was already using something similar which is called Interpet Filter Start which is a biological additive to kick start the filter. Is that the same stuff or similar to the Safestart? I don't mind buying the safe start but seems no where around here actually sells it, I may have to order it online.
 
And thank you for your comprehensive replies, it is very much appreciated.

 

[Jonj1611]

Hi,
 
Right I went out this morning and got some Tetra Safe Start which I have added to the tank, I also bought an ammonia testing kit. Before I added the safe start I took a sample of water from the tank. 
 
When I went to the fish shop yesterday they did a dip test on the ammonia and as I said came back with a reading of between 1.5 and 2, however the test I did today which was from a proper kit as it were indicates the ammonia level is between 0.2 and 0.5 I have added a photo below
 

 

[Nordk]

By "dip test" do you mean a paper strip? A liquid kits are more accurate than the strips, so I would go with the results from the liquid kit. Just be sure you're using it correctly.
Remember to keep up water changes until the ammonia and nitrite are at 0 and nitrates are fairly low for a few days.

 

[TwoTankAmin]

No- not all bacteria starter products are the same. In fact most do not contain the bacteria we want the most. Dr Tims and Safe Start both should. There are other commercial products as well but they are not seen as commonly in the hobby.
 
I suggest those two because I both believe and know from experience they should work. They are not fail safe because of potential poor handling or being too old (over 6 months unrefrigerated or 12 kept cool). But they are decent for the most part. Most of the other products do not contain the types of bacteria shown to be what ends up in fw tanks. Some of these may help with cycling issues by reducing ammonia or nitrite, but in the end what is in these bottles will not be what persists in your tank long after it is established. They may act as a bridge but not the end. Of course this may be enough for a fish in cycle since the goal is to get to cycled without damaging or losing fish.
 
On last note- it is best not to change water after adding the bacteria for the Next 24-36 hours. They need time to settle in the filters and on the gravel or decor. It also helps to leave the tank lights of as well during this period. However, it is always preferable to lose bacteria than fish if your levels suddenly jump before the bacteria can get set.

 

[Jonj1611]

Yes paper strip, to be honest there isn't too much that can go wrong with this kit, I mean its quite straight forward. I will leave the water for a day or so and keep checking the ammonia and other levels. 
 
Again thanks for all the advice from everyone and hopefully now will be on the right track.

 

[Jonj1611]

Hi,
 
Well the fish are all over the tank now so that is good, but I have a question, I did a 25% water change today, used declorinated water and all that but virtually as soon as the water change was done the water in the tank was a bit cloudy.
 
I say a bit as it really isn't a lot but its definitely not crystal clear like it was, I checked the readings and ammonia is at 0.2 but nitrites have gone from 0 to 0.1, is this normal or ?