Fish Mix

[ProjectMayhem]

I have just began a second tank, a small 16 litre tank and thought I might do a little experiment.

I have decided to mix cold water and tropical fish, and monitor them very closely despite being advised not to. The tank now contains a Blackmaw (cold) and 2 Danios (Tropical). My first concern was that the blackmaw might try to eat the danios, which it didn't even bother with them as they kept apart from each other. The next concern was stress on the blackmaw with these tiny things darting about the tank, the blackmaw seems completely relaxed with them.

It has now been 3 days and all 3 fish are no longer avoiding each other and are swimming with each other and not bothering each other at all and I am so far having no problems at all and have the water set to a nice 22 which is ok for both types of fish.

Is there anything I should look out for in the fish as a warning that this isn't working because I have another large tank which the blackmaw can go in if there is any problems.

 

[fluttermoth]

Why? why, oh why, oh why?
Why do you insist on doing things that you've been told aren't healthy for your fish? Do you want to kill or stress these fish?

Keeping goldfish at tropical temperatures considerably shortens their lifespan by forcing their metabolism to work at a faster rate than it evolved to do, not to mention that it will become stunted and it's internal organs deformed by keeping kept in too small a tank.

Danios might be small, but they are fast swimming shoalers, and should be in a group of 6+ in a three foot tank.

We've been telling you on your other thread that fancy goldfish need large tanks, and now you're putting black mooors and danios in a bloody 16l tank.

Put the moor in it's bigger tank now, before it dies, honestly

16l is suitable for shrimp or snails, one betta, or possibly two or three male Endlers. NOTHING else should be in there

 

[ProjectMayhem]

Why? why, oh why, oh why?
Why do you insist on doing things that you've been told aren't healthy for your fish? Do you want to kill or stress these fish?

Keeping goldfish at tropical temperatures considerably shortens their lifespan by forcing their metabolism to work at a faster rate than it evolved to do, not to mention that it will become stunted and it's internal organs deformed by keeping kept in too small a tank.

Danios might be small, but they are fast swimming shoalers, and should be in a group of 6+ in a three foot tank.

We've been telling you on your other thread that fancy goldfish need large tanks, and now you're putting black mooors and danios in a bloody 16l tank.

Put the moor in it's bigger tank now, before it dies, honestly

16l is suitable for shrimp or snails, one betta, or possibly two or three male Endlers. NOTHING else should be in there

Well I can buy a bigger tank but I was told 16l is ok for 2 goldfish and the black moor is a lot smaller than a goldfish. The temp setting is the temperature it would be at room temperature I just have a heater in there to keep it constantly at this temperature in case there is a sudden drop, I can't make my tank any colder than it is at the moment?

Is there any reason why they can't go together other than being different type of fish, I only did this because the black moor in the wild lives with minnows so should be used to small things darting around.

 

[hanny93]

16l is big enough for goldfish? who told you that? lfs? no, that is not even nearly big enough as you have already been told.

It is easy enough to lower the temp of a tank using ice, turning the ehater and lights off and opening windows and doors.

The reason they cant live together is because one is coldwater, and one is tropical (well, sub tropical), as fluttermoth has outlined, higher temperatures =higher metabolism.

stop messing around and put the moor in a bigger tank, or better still, give it to someone who has a pond and will be able to look after it properly.

 

[KittyKat]

16 litre is not anywhere near ok for goldfish or danios. I'd be wanting at least a 4 ft tank for the goldfish and 3 ft tank for the danios. Also danios are schooling fish.

Back moors do not live with minnows because black moors do not live in the wild. They are a hybrid which was created specifically for the aquarium trade.

Luckily for your fish, you happened to stumble across two coolwater species, instead of a coldwater and a tropical species. [EDIT: fancy bodied goldfish have a lot of digestive problems, so the slightly warmer water makes life a little bit easier for them.] There is a reason why tropical are not mixed with coolwater: incorrect water temperature shortens life spans and makes fish more susceptible to health problems. It's not something you have to prove to yourself, it has been studied in great detail so just go read what the findings were, instead of abusing animals yourself.

Both species can survive at 17-18 C in the long term, just please get a decent sized fish tank for them so you don't harm them through lack of space to turn around.

 

[fluttermoth]

There are no black moors in the wild; they are a totally man made variety of the goldfish, Carassius auratus (sorry, hanny, but actually they can't be kept in ponds; they're too delicate)

They, and the danios are both what's known as sub-tropical, and, yes they can both cope at 22°C, but it's at the higher end of the moor's tolerance and the low end of the danios; it's not ideal for either and you're forcing them to live in less than ideal conditions. Iwon't kill them, but it will damage their metabolisms by forcing them to work at speeds they did note evolve for and it will shorten their lifespans considerably.

I think we should aim to keep our pets as happy and healthy as possible, and than means keeping them in as near to optimum conditions as possible.

A 16l tank is not in any way, shape or form suitable for two goldfish; they need a minimum of 100l tank, with another 40l for each additional fish.

 

[KittyKat]

Also, did you cycle the filter first? And remember that goldfish need a lot of surface movement for oxygen and decent filtration because they're messy.

(sorry, hanny, but actually they can't be kept in ponds; they're too delicate)

+1

[..]the low end of the danios; it's not ideal for either and you're forcing them to live in less than ideal conditions.

Zebra danios (Danio rerio) can live in about 15-30 C, they're probably the most flexible fish I can think of.. I have found that their optimum lifespan is at 18-22 C (depending on other factors).

 

[hanny93]

OOps sorry fluttermoth, was thinking of young goldfish being black etc and fighting dogs = wrong info!!


Op - start listening before you carry on this 'experiment' and harm all your fish.

 

[willowstwin]

wow... I thought my 48 litre tank would be ok for goldfish (as I was intimidated by keeping trops at first) but I took the advice of people on here that it was too small and have decided to plan for trops.

Please take their advice and get this poor little guy in a bigger, coldwater tank. Also, don't danios grow to be 1.5 - 2 inches long? so sure that tank is too small for them. From an animal behaviourist side, danios are schooling fish, and as such need to be kept in grops of 6 or more. This is not only to give them a sense of security, but to spread out the dominance - there is always 1 dominant fish, and if that one is having to deal it out between 5 or more others, it's much nicer than dishing it out to 1.

Please take notice of the people here. You may think that they're being mean or calling you cruel, but they just want a) the happiness of the fish and b) you not having to deal with deaths etc

 

[micko]

Can I ask you are you being serious?
You are on your second tank now so I'm assuming you have had a wee bit of experience with other fish?
16ltr is terrible for any goldfish or any danios.
We have a black moor and a normal goldfish in a 5ft tank. They are both 7years old and I can tell you I wouldn't be putting any other coldwater fish in there because that's enough.
Please research fish before buying them and hoofing them into a tiny tank.
You have already been told by other members with far more experience than me not to do this and you still went ahead and done it. What's the point in you asking for suggestions if your going to do your own thing anyway?

I'm sorry if this seems a bit harsh but if you've already been told then continue to do it your really asking for trouble.

By the way, the black moor we have turned gold, I done a lot of research as to why this happened and was told that it is because it was in a tank and not a pond.
I don't know if that's correct and I'm not saying it is the reason but that's all I know.

 

[fluttermoth]

The fading of the black colour is very common in moors; it's nothing to do with being in tank v. pond; it's contolled by genetics and is because the black pigment is not very stable.

Black moors are not suitable for ponds, they're just not hardy enough. They can go out for a few weeks in the summer months, but they can't stay out all year.

 

[ProjectMayhem]

I now have a 150 Litre, the Danios are still in the 16 litre and the Blackmoor is in the first tank. The new one is brand new so looks like I have to quit on this for a few weeks while it cycles.

A lot of what you're saying is a bit mixed in regards to them going together, the water temp is 22 degrees with no heaters and using ice is a bit risky since it's difficult to maintain a constant temperature doing that especially when I have work. When this tank is cycled I will put in the Danios probably with 3 more and the black moor my tank cannot get colder without messing with it the heater is only in the tank for when the weather changes to keep this temp. The black moor is also very small, the size of 2 of the danios on top of each other.

 

[fluttermoth]

You don't need to worry about cooling the tank; the black moor will be fine at just ambient room temp; only if it goes up above around 26/28°C do you need to start thinking about doing something to bring it down; as long as you don't have any direct sunlight getting to it, you shouldn't have to worry in a larger tank.

The 16l is still too small for the danios, long term, and they really should have a heater; their ideal temp is around 24°C

The black moor might be small, but young fish need at least twice the room that an adult fish of the same size, and really should be in a tank big enough for them as an adult; your new 150l is, so that's really, really, great; he should live a long and happy life (he should live 15 or 20 years) in there once you've cycled it, so keep an eye on those ammonia and nitrite levels. If you can grab some spare media from your parents tanks to put in your filter, that should shorten your cycle by seeding your filter with good bacteria.

I'm really, really glad you've got a bigger tank for your moor; I'll say a huge thanks to you on his behalf; you've even got room in there for him to have a little buddy of his own species now!

 

[KittyKat]

It's the summer, so the water will try to match the air temperature.. the best easy thing to do is keep lights on for only a couple of hours per day (lights heat produce heat), provide good ventilation (so maybe leave the lid open) and make sure direct sunlight never touches the tank. If the room gets stuffy-hot, open the windows.

If you have a fancy goldfish only tank, they will not need a heater, the water in a larger tank can maintain its own temperature overnight well enough and the average house does not get colder than 15-16 C in winter.

 

[ProjectMayhem]

It's the summer, so the water will try to match the air temperature.. the best easy thing to do is keep lights on for only a couple of hours per day (lights heat produce heat), provide good ventilation (so maybe leave the lid open) and make sure direct sunlight never touches the tank. If the room gets stuffy-hot, open the windows.

If you have a fancy goldfish only tank, they will not need a heater, the water in a larger tank can maintain its own temperature overnight well enough and the average house does not get colder than 15-16 C in winter.

The average house is the problem, I'm quite high up in the hills so the heater is being cautious it can get to -5 in my house over night until the heaters come on in the morning.

The Danios will only be there as long as the big tank takes to cycle, the large oranda in the first tank will without a doubt eat them, so although it isn't ideal, they're in the 16l at the moment.