Fish Dying - Water Checked Nothing Wrong With It

[walshy28]

Someone please help! I have had 5 Swordtails, 2 Guppys and 1 barb all die within the last week!! I have had the water tested and there appears to be nothing in the water that is causing this! The tank is 168L and has 35 fish in it, has been established for several months with no problems until now. 
 
All help would be appreciated!! 

 

[the_lock_man]

Hello Walshy, welcome to the fourm.
 
I infer from what you said that you took a sample of water to a fish shop, and had it tested, am I right? Did they tell you what they tested and what the results were, or did they just say "no, that's fine". The reason I ask is that my interpretation of "fine" is often quite different to that of a LFS employee. I would like to know what your levels of ammonia, nitrite and nitrate are, and what the pH of the water is.
 
I'd also like to know exactly what the tank stocking is, if you could list them all out, making sure to be specific about which fish you have, for example "barb" doesn't tell me much, I would need to know whether it's a tiger barb, or a cherry barb, or a denison barb, or whatever.
 
When you set the tank up, how did you cycle the filter? And when you say several months, how many months is that?

 

[walshy28]

Thank you! 
 
I didn't have the exact level but they tested the amonia, nitrate, ph. I can get the water retested and post this information after. 
 
Currently there is: 
2 x angel fish (1 large 1 medium) 
1 x Dension barb
1x male swordtail 
6 x female swordtail 
1 x elegant rasbora
1 x large plec (not sure what breed he is) 
3 x Scissortail rasbora 
9 x male guppy 
2 x bamboo shrimp 
2 x albino cory 
2 x 3 spotted guarmi 
3 x albino tigers
3 x phamton 
2 x silver sharks (small) 
1 x sucking loach 
 
(sorry i miss counted the number originally) 
 
The filter set up is we have two fuval 2+ filters one in each corner of the tank, the one of the left is aimed towards the right hand side of the tank and the right hand fliter is aimed towards the front of the tank to try and ensure a good flow. 
 
The tank has been established for 3 months now, the fish have been added gradually in no more than 6 per time. 
 
Thanks!

 

[the_lock_man]

Make sure they do nitrite as well.
 
How did you cycle the filter? I suspect that the cause of your problem is ammonia poisoning, whether that be current ammonia, or the delayed effects of it when cycling the filter.
 
Sorry, another question, how often do you change the water, and by how much?

 

[walshy28]

Im unsure as to what you mean by cycle the filter, 
 
we change the water by 20% on a weekly basis. 
 
Thanks 

 

[the_lock_man]

Im unsure as to what you mean by cycle the filter, 
 

 
No worries, that in itself gives me a clue or two to your problem.
 
Cycling is the process of growing two colonies of bacteria in your filter and tank which process the ammonia produced by the fish, via nitrite, into nitrate. Nitrate is removed from the tank by water changes.
 
Since you don't know what it means, it suggests that you set the tank up, maybe ran it without fish for a few days, then popped the first batch of 6 fish in. Nothing to be ashamed about, most new fishkeepers do exactly that, myself included. However, since you don't have your own test kit, it appears you weren't keeping an eye on ammonia and nitrite levels whilst the bacteria colonies established themselves.
 
I'm more sure now that your problem is ammonia, and with a stocking level that high, with only a 20% change per week, your problem may be made worse by high nitrate as well. (Like I said, LFS employees often have different interpretations of "good" and "bad" from a lot of us on this forum).

 

[walshy28]

So is there a way i can fix this easily/quickly as i dont want to loose anymore fish!
 
ps thanks for all your help so far!!

 

[ShinySideUp]

How often do you clean the filters and more importantly, how? Ensure you do not wash any filter material under the tap, you must clean it in tank water otherwise the tap water chemicals will kill all the good bacteria you need to keep your water in good condition.
 
As the lock man says you probably have ammonia or nitrite problems and you ought to do a large water change straight away; at least 50% and preferably 75%. Ensure your new water is at roughly the same temperature of the tank water and add some water conditioner like Seachem Prime or Tetra Aquasafe to the new water; this will neutralise the tap water chemicals.
 
A new tank is a steep learning curve, stick with it.

 

[the_lock_man]

It depends upon what your test results actually are.
 
It could be that your losses are down to the delayed effects of ammonia poisoning - it's rather like humans smoking, the ammonia causes damage to the gills and to the internal organs, and it can take some time for this damage to manifest itself. After 3 months, I would have expected the ammonia levels to have been reduced by now, but it also depends upon how long ago the last additions were put in there.
 
As SSU says, larger water changes are probably the way to go, but I would wait until you get the water test results. While you're in the shop, I wholeheartedly recommend that you invest in your own kit (liquid drop kit, not paper strips), as this will make your life a lot easier.

 

[walshy28]

Whenever we add any fresh water we do always add a solution called 'tapsafe', I will try giving a 75% water change when i get home from work this evening. Should i invest in an amonia testing kit or something similar to maintain a specific level? 
 
We clean the filters around once a month using the water we have removed from the tank during a water change we never use tap water to clean the filters as we had been told about the issue this can cause. 
 
Really kind of new to this so all help is highly appreciated 

 
As SSU says, larger water changes are probably the way to go, but I would wait until you get the water test results. While you're in the shop, I wholeheartedly recommend that you invest in your own kit (liquid drop kit, not paper strips), as this will make your life a lot easier.

 
This has answered my previous question! I will go get the exact results and a test kit! 
http/www.petsathome.com/shop/nitrite-liquid-test-kit-by-api-31870?cm_re=barillianceup%20sellproduct%20details
 
Would this be the test kit you were suggesting? 

 

[Blobfish]

As has already been said a large water change will help your surviving fish.  You can buy testing kits and test the water yourself, they are about £20 for an API master kit (don't be tempted by the dip sticks they don't work well), I found this really helps to get your head around the whole water chemistry thing and allows you to keep on top of what is happening in your tank.
 
http/www.amazon.co.uk/API-Freshwater-Master-Test-Kit/dp/B000255NCI/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1389179524&sr=8-1&keywords=api+master+kit
 
You LFS will probably sell them though.

 

[walshy28]

I will be ordering a test kit later today, could somebody inform me of the levels it should be. 
 
Thanks all. 

 

[the_lock_man]

I will be ordering a test kit later today, could somebody inform me of the levels it should be. 
 
Thanks all. 

 
http/www.petsathome.com/shop/api-master-test-kit-25613
 
This is the same thing that Blobfish posted, but from the shop, so you have it straight away - your choice on cost or speed, I guess!
 
Ammonia and nitrite should be 0ppm. Nitrate should be no more than 20ppm above your tapwater level. pH is what it is, so long as it's between 6.2 and 8.2. Two things to note about the API kit. First, the ammonia kit is hard to distinguish between 0ppm and 0.25ppm - it's best viewed under sunlight, rather than artificial. Flourescent is better than incandescent lighting. Secondly, you have to shake the bejaysus out of nitrate bottle no.2 - there is a powder reagent that precipitates out of the solution, and needs to be completely redissolved before you get a decent result.

 

[Essjay]

 
 Flourescent is better than incandescent lighting.
 

 
Are you sure this is the right way round? When I did a fishless cycle last year, I looked at the ammonia test tube in daylight, and under an energy saving bulb, strip fluorescent tube, incandescent bulb and halogen bulb. We didn't have any led bulbs to check those. The incandescent and halogen bulbs gave the same reading as daylight while the flourescent, tube and energy saving, gave a different reading.
 
 
Of course it could have been my eyesight!

 

[star4]

Just out of curiosity how big is your sucking loach? I am presuming that it is a chinese algae eater, these are well known for sucking the slime coat off fish once they reach a certain size/age.