fish don’t play, you say??? I beg to differ

Magnum Man53 167

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anyone with much experience with panda garras knows better, currently in that same tank, I have 7 baby spot tail algae eaters ( Crossocheilus reticulatus ), that I’m growing out… if they were sexually mature, I’d say it looked like mating, but to me it looked like brothers wrestling in the living room… this particular 2, of the seven, have been dancing / wrestling, for an hour and half, since the lights 1st came on…I know we can’t interpret fish feelings, but it sure looks playful to me…
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I am a big fan of how "nature" seems to do things. One of these with many species of fish that live in groups, schools and other loose forms of association is that they form pecking orders. he fish at the top of the order get to eat first and to spawn first.

There is a reason things work this way, imo. Nature is concerned with the preservation of the species. Part of how this is accomplished is for the production of offspring with the greatest chance of survival and the ability to "be they best." In the wild the weakest always die first and the strongest get to food and the reproductive rights.

The competition often starts early and often looks like play. But there is a more cogent reason for this behavior. It is the start of the battle to be as near to the top of the pecking order as possible.

The ability to observe this is actually greater in our tanks than it is in the wild. This is even greater when hobbyists get involved with having fish breed in their tanks. This allows us to observe fish from birth to adulthood and even end of life. So, I agree with what Rusty wrote above and more. The fish may just be practicing fighting which they will do for real later in life or they might be at the outset of the actual fighting. The result in time will be the same.

(edited to fix the usual typos)
 
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I am a big fan of how "nature" seems to do things. One of these with many species of fish that live in groups, schools and other loose forms of association is that they form pecking orders. he fish at the top of the order get to eat fisrt and to spawn first.

There is a reason things work this way. imo. Nature is concerned with the preservation of the species. Part of how this is accomplished is for the production of offspring with the greatest chance of survival and the ability to "be they best." In the wild the weakest always die first and the strongest get to food and the reproductive rights.

The competition often starts early and often looks like play. But there is a more cogent reason for this behavior. It is the start of the battle to be as near to the top of the pecking order as possible.

The ability to observe this is actually greater in out tanks than it is in the wild. This is even greater when hobbyists get involved with having fish breed in their tanks. This allows us to observe fish from birth to adulthood and even end of life. So, I agree with what Rusty wrote above and more. The fish may just be practicing fighting which they will do for real later in life or they might be at the outset of the actual fighting. The result in time will be the same
You see the same thing when two fish line up parallel to each other, head to tail. One fish will swish it's caudal fin, sending a wave of water into the other fishes face. It's a show of strength.
 
When they are young is tends to be play which is practice. As the fish grow it turns more serious. Eventually, it can become a fight to the death in some cases.

I have always been fascinated by the various reproductive methods different species have. Some fish are great parents, and others are willing to eat their own young. Plus, most free swimming fry are potential food for something.
 
these 2, are some of the smaller of the seven, so maybe a match to see who is the weakest fish, but I’ve witnessed many critters over the years that seems to play… ie, the shrimp who rode bubbles to the surface, just to glide back to the bottom, to grab another bubble, several even lined up to wait their turn for the carnival ride
 
What seems playful to us could be, but it also could be merely the fish practicing for future territorial or courtship status moments. I used to love watching my Betta “play” with the floating mirror ball I would use for a few minutes every so often. In reality, he was probably thinking he saw a rival. I have watched my male Congo Tetras grow up and they would chase each other daily and spar rather vigorously. Never did one get hurt, or did one swim off to get away. In fact, many times the one bring chased would turn a corner and instantly become the chaser from one end of the 4’ tank to another. It looks like goofing/playing around and can even appear violent, but probably is just the males going through the actions to impress or for a hidden hierarchy. When watching them, one would swear that fish are getting hurt……but they don’t…..and you should see the teeth of a Congo Tetra :oops:

The closest thing to actual playing that I can recall is with my Koi. They would swim up to my hand and nudge it or swim right up to my snorkel mask and bump it. The hand thing might be from their having been hand fed for years and years. Rather than playing, I think they were curious about this goon swimming among them in my 3,600g rubber lined outdoor crystal clear Koi pond.:wub:
 
And what is human play? A preparation for future life, maybe in roles that no longer exist as serious needs. It's also skills learning, including interpersonal social skills. And at times, it's creativity. The simple hierarchy view is, in my opinion, very wrong. Fish, like humans, may play because it satisfies the senses. They'll run up a filter current, spar, etc, because tank life is boring and they have pent up energy. They'll sometimes explore. It's play if it gives them pleasure. How can we measure that?

" In the wild the weakest always die first and the strongest get to food and the reproductive rights."

Actually, studies of animal social organization show this to be untrue. The weaker sometimes live longer as the leadership fish are often more exposed to predators. There is a huge element of luck in why any of us are here, and survival can be random, more often than not, I'd argue. There's also an enormous body of research on sneaker males and their contributions to genetic diversity and species survival, as well as on female choices. Sneakers are non dominant males who still father young. It makes sense, because brute strength isn't always what's needed for survival. The species and individuals that survive are the ones with luck who adapt to new situations best. That isn't always a question of physical strength. We're examples of a creature that often has a good brain, but can be beaten up by any adult chimpanzee. Other ape species are bigger and stronger than we are, but we more than get by. We adapt well.

Intelligence is an important survival ability, and it appears to have appeared early in evolution. For sure, it takes many forms, but I wouldn't bet against it showing itself in play in fish. If the ability to play makes a fish better adapted to its world, then it's important.
 
Oscars . Oscars will play . Stick your hand in there with them and find out .
I've seen Oscars that were trained to hit a ping pong ball out of their tank.
It's somewhat easy to do. It's a response to stimuli. It hits it out it gets a few pellets. Soon it will hit it out every time hoping for a few pellets. But it's not play. It wants the ping pong ball or your hand out of it's territory. I just don't think fish have the brains for play. They are wired to eat, not get eaten, and mate. Play would distract them from the other three.
Do fish have extra calories to burn playing? Would they potentially miss a meal?
Would playing male them more vulnerable to predators? Would play make them miss an opportunity to mate?

Does anyone have video of fishes playing in the wild?
 
I have 10 adult G. pygmaeus in a nano tank with 30 B. brigittae. The pygmies look like they are playing tag. Each gets an opportunity to be the chaser. But they never chase the brigittae. It’s quite the show.
 
I was writing as a general rule. What I saw in tanks was interesting. In my zebra pleco breeding tank the alpha male was the second biggest. But his will and muscle made him #1. I used to refer the the #2 male a s fatty. In talking to others who were breeding this species I got similar reports as the who was the alpha and it being the 2nd biggest.

It is not uncommon to see zebras on a colony in a tank have scrape marks and even redness on their flanks. I knew they fought but one night there were two of them clashing on the front glass. They get odontiles on their sides in spawning mode. This told me exactly how and why I would see the scrape marks and redness. Another trick competing use is for the superior one to trap his opponent in a cave with the end result being murder. This inspired the invention of the split cave. It also facilitate removing eggs or wigglers for those inclined to do so.

When I was involved with a few discus I met an expert who worked with wild ones. I got a [air of wilds from him. He told me in the wild that discus gun in groups. he further expliained that the biggest and prettiest ones tended to act as guards protecting the group. They would be positioned aroun the outer edges of the group, as a result of being guardians, would be in the worst shape fin-wise. They did the fuighting that cause fis to ne nipped or torn.

I don't remember from whom, but is was told that in the wild altums would also mix in with discius cgroups to beefit from rthe presense of the guard discus.

But. I would argue that despite the death rate in defenders and the stronger fighters that, when it comes to indivudal survival, some of them will be at the top of the list.

I can add I witnessed in bristlenose where spawnstend to be greater numbers that the fry compete for food. they will fight for it. But I also observed that not all of them want4ed to fidgt. Some appeared top adopt a strategy of not fighting for food as a way to avoid being hurt. These were always the runts of the group. I would always sell the biggest ifsh foirst which meant eventually the stronger feistier ones went away. When This happens and their were smaller nubers and less disparity in the sizes the runts started to eat more and would catch up. One wat no to get beaten up or injured is to choose not to fight.
 

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